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Completed Scavenger Challenge (** SPOILERS **)
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BluePhoenix



Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 96
Location: Between Georgia and Cuba



PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fost wrote:
It's truly sad the amount of hacking that goes on in modern games, the result being you make a perfectly playable game no fun whatsoever; why??


Beats me. Cheating is only fun when you're playing against a computer and you want to destroy the equivalent of an Imperial Star Destroyer with tin can.
But Never to pretend you did something you didn't. I remember how in Diablo II, the most fun was trying to find the best items, not having them.
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Weeble
Starscape Jedi
Starscape Jedi


Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 1143
Location: Glasgow, Scotland



PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More games need to have private scoreboards. You get a bunch of friends and all challenge each other's scores. You trust them as your friends, so hacking isn't much of an issue, and every score listed actually means something because you know the person. Works best if it's a game with lots of scores, such as time-trials in a racing game, or something like that.
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 4121
Location: Sheffield, UK



PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A nice idea, i'm sure i've heard someone at XBox Live mention something similar for some of their sports games. It's a nice addition to a normal high score table, but I think it is being done because nobody believes the high score tables anymore - too many cheaters. I just wish we didn't have to do things like that as it dilutes the core goodness of knowing you are 9th in the world (or whatever).

//slightly off topic rant begins//

A similar thing happened in mmorpg's with PVP (player vs. player combat), there were so many people cheating that games had to switch to consentual PVP or entirely separate PVP servers. There are rumours that EQ2 wont even bother with PVP at all now. A shame the developers couldn't make it work, the threat of being attacked by a human really added a feeling of tension and danger to the experience.

Before UltimaOnline got really popular it kind of worked, player killers could easily be identified and were forced to stay in the monster spawning "bad lands". There were mechanisms to escape attack and if you knew what you were doing you could fight back or hide. It didn't take long though before certain people found exploits and hacks to take advantage of the system. Once you start being killed for no reason with no means of escape the fun turns to anger and people start leaving.

Don't even get me started about the rampant cheating in CounterStrike Rolling Eyes

Still, it's human nature for people to search for the path of least resistence to glory, I don't blame the players (ok I do). It's the developers who need to keep working on better solutions, it's just a never ending job to keep shutting the doors humans are capable of finding.

//slightly off topic rant ends//
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Weeble
Starscape Jedi
Starscape Jedi


Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 1143
Location: Glasgow, Scotland



PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can think of no leak-proof method of preventing high-score cheating. The absolute best I can imagine is to provide an audit-trail of everything that happened in the game, which can be authenticated by a server to check that it really works. This is a) probably an unfeasible amount of data to record, store and transmit, and b) definitely a ridiculous amount of processing required to perform the validation. It also fails to account for rewind/save-state cheats that allow unlimited attempts over an arbitrarily small time period in the game.

Of course, there is Palladium.
*turns to camera, with sinister underlighting*
*camera recoils*
*thunder crashes*
*violins raise in pitch, becoming dischordant and frenetic*
*fade to black*
*dark laughter*
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Weeble
Starscape Jedi
Starscape Jedi


Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 1143
Location: Glasgow, Scotland



PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:48 pm    Post subject: Kaboom! Reply with quote

*sigh*
Attempt #1 at scavenger/hard/no-xenarch-tech/no-save in 1.5 met a hideous end in zone 4. Tragically I'd just found a generator 4, bumping me up from [engine 1, generator 1, 2xblaster 2 and 2xrocket] to [engine 2, generator 4, 3xblaster 2 and a blaster 1]. Then in the very next node I was waylaid by a vile interdictor and the Aegis was nibbled to death by little fighters. Is that animation new? It looks really cool when the Aegis blows up. It was some comfort to me as I realised it was all over.

The new zone 1 boss is great. I like the level of difficulty. I think I had to call in the Aegis before the end of the fight with both of the first two. She got beat up quite a bit by boss 2, but pulled through. This time I managed to beat boss 3 with barely a scratch, which was a relief.
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icarus
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Joined: 01 Mar 2004

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Kaboom! Reply with quote

Weeble wrote:
xenarch-tech/no.


i diddent no the xenarch lissned to music Mr. Green
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Lothar
Starscape Jedi
Starscape Jedi


Joined: 21 Dec 2003
Posts: 522



PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recently, I've been playing through some challenge games. I'd played a single-ship game with an avenger, and then a single-ship game with a devastator (on hard, of course.) That meant I had to beat the first 2 zones in a default runabout. That was really hard, though I only ended up losing one default runabout total, on the zone 2 boss. Once I got my devastator, the game got to be fairly easy. Having finished both of those games, I figured it was time for a prowler game.

I decided to try a scavenger game. My hope was to finish it all in one sitting, but it ended up taking me 3 total.

Here's how it went:

Started with my original prowler with the standard equipment. Immediately researched blaster 2's, and nothing else. Since these are the primaries you'll be using all game, it's good to make SURE you get them early on by not researching anything else. I pushed my way through zone 1, never picking up an info node (and therefore forcing the boss to make tons of extra miners) and eventually picked up all my blaster 2's. I never visited the zone 1 Xenarch (until after my first win -- I reloaded and went back for a higher score.)

After beating the zone 1 boss, I headed straight to zone 3, skipping zone 2. The reason why will become clear in a moment. I researched up to cannon 2 for my station, and almost immediately got a cannon 1 and 3 turret 1's, as well as a scoop, in drops. I had my station fairly well armed, and I had plenty of firepower for my prowler, but it handled like a boat with an engine 1, battery 1, gen 1, cargo bay, grav 1, and 4 blaster 2's. I think I researched up to grav 3's here, as well, and picked up a grav 2 from one of the mining barges. Again, I avoided the info nodes and forced the boss to keep sending me barges, and then quickly killed the boss without taking a hit (if you back up and charge your blasters, 3 trips down the screen will take out all the doors and turrets on the zone 3 boss.)

I recycled random stuff and researched all the way up to engine 4 and generator 4, with the hope that I'd now be able to pick them up from zone 2 (since the ships in zone 2 drop more than those in zone 4.) I also stopped by the Xenarch and got missile drones, and then headed off to zone 2. In zone 2, I got an engine 4 and a generator 3 and multiple missile drones, as well as a cannon 3 for the Aegis, but still had just turret 1's. Also, because of the size of the gen 3, I was only able to carry one of the two missile drones.

I went through zone 4, researched nova bombs up to level 3, and even found a couple in drops -- but I could only carry one if I got rid of my missile drone, so I didn't (due to the generator 3.) I went on to zone 5, still looking for that elusive generator 4. I survived several close encounters with clamshells turning on their gravity attack while I was nearby, and there were a couple times they turned on next to my station, and I was really glad for the cannon 3 I'd found. Unfortunately, in one of those attacks, I lost the cannon 3 and had to go back to a cannon 2 -- but found a cannon 3 in the very next drop (I also had 3 cannon 2's and about 6 cannon 1's in storage.) I also found a turret 3 and quickly lost it in an attack, and no turret 2's (none all game!). Eventually, it got to be 1 AM, so I went to bed.

The next morning, after finishing up a presentation, I picked the game back up and flew around for about 5 minutes, still looking for a generator 4. I found a turret 3 to replace the one I'd lost earlier, only to lose it in the very next battle. Another 40 minutes of fighting random stuff yielded a single dropped item I was lucky to pick up from the middle of a bunch of fighters -- a generator 4! Finally, I was able to upgrade from:

gen 3, engine 4, 4 blaster 2's, grav 3, misile drone
to
gen 4, engine 4, 4 blaster 2's, grav 3, 2 missile drones, nova 3

Which made a really big difference on those nasty warpins -- a few nova bombs will really shred a pack of fighters and buy the Aegis those crucial seconds.

At this point, I decided to save the game, and then immediately go after the boss so I could say I'd beat the game in scavenger mode (I didn't want to risk losing the game because I went back for a higher score.) After taking the boss, I reloaded and went for a higher score -- back to zones 1 and 2 for Xenarch tech, and then back to zone 5 to kill everything off. Slowly but surely I worked my way through the swarms, finding one more turret 3 in the process. I also greatly refined my anti-fighter tactics -- circling to get them packed up is really effective, because their explosions tend to damage each other and lead to chain reactions.

The boss was fairly easy (both times) -- I got the drones packed up, and then flew past them (and sometimes through them) and shot the fighter bays while leaving the fighters themselves alone. With a ship as maneuverable as a prowler with an engine 4, it's pretty easy to take out the final boss.

Final result:
30th Tom Darrow 536666 3 1 Yes Yes



Not quite as high scoring as my wife's scavenger game, but I took 2 hours less time than she did (almost to the second.) As it turns out, we also chose the same ship name...

Oh, and the final verdict: scavenger is definitely harder than single-ship devastator... by a long shot. I'll have to try a prowler game without the scavenger restriction sometime soon to compare...
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your trials are finally complete my young padawan learner, you may now enter the hallowed halls of the Jedi council.
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Konedima
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wait.... tell me... how do you become a jedi?
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Fost
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The path is different for everyone - and fraught with danger.





Rolling Eyes
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icarus
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Joined: 01 Mar 2004

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just do something so **** awesome that they just have to make you a jedi

PS. you cant keep making everyone a jedi that wins the scavenger challenge

mabe you can give deferent awards for deferent things

ACE pilot
for the top scorer

scavenger
for people who win the scavenger challenge

top poster
for the top poster that isn't a mod
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Konedima
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

but what i meant is how do you win the scavenger challenge (and i'll have to do it inconveniently because of the alt+f4 problem i have
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Fost
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Pod Team


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

konedima wrote:
i'll have to do it inconveniently because of the alt+f4 problem i have

You could try not hitting alt+f4 to close the game - just a thought - but the game does have an exit button on just about every screen - hit escape in the main game and you are 1 mouse click away from your desktop Smile
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Konedima
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah... but i never use the mouse in starscape
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Fost
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

konedima wrote:
yeah... but i never use the mouse in starscape

Luckily it also works with keys (as with everything in SS)

ESC - UP - UP - ENTER Smile
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