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Old problem, new patch!
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Hamish
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Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 570
Location: Auckland, NZ



PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am pretty sure Starscape has all the ship directions pre-rendered, if capital ships had 30 or more direction frames instead of just one the download size would get alot bigger... which is bad for sales
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Chibi



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 271
Location: Denver, CO, United States



PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Butbutbut... Scaling vehicles for hyperspace isn't pre-rendered, is it? Hmm... What you need to do is have one image of each ship, at twice the size, and then resample them into RAM half as big, at the required angle. See, that's how you do it. Or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

But how would you make an Aegis twice as large as it is now? Do you have all of this stuff in Freehand vector files? It all looks pretty vector based.
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Fost
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all pre-rendered for lighting purposes only. The Sprites are on 3D quads anyway, so we can scale things up and down/ rotate them at will. However, when things rotate, we also store many frames so the lighting looks correct. The sprites actually are rotated to cover the angles between those frames, so the rotation is smooth, and the lighting is more like a sampled representation.

So, whilst we could spin the Aegis, or in fact any capitol ship, the lighting on them wouldn't change without adding lots of data.
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Chibi



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 271
Location: Denver, CO, United States



PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fost wrote:
It's all pre-rendered for lighting purposes only.
So, whilst we could spin the Aegis, or in fact any capitol ship, the lighting on them wouldn't change without adding lots of data.


I'll play some more and think about this. There has to be a way. NormalMapping or something. *ponders*
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Magnulus



Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 556
Location: Bergen, Norway



PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Normal mapping a sprite? Then why not just go all the way to 3D graphics? You're all over the place, Chibi.
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Flumpaphone



Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 86



PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not so sure about the gameplay advances that would be made by a rotating Aegis Wink byt it would look quite impressive if some off the bosses could rotate.

I would not prioritise it over the original point however. Drag and drop ship construction would be a huge improvement. Yet I would also put that low on my own wishlist; new enemies, ships and equipement or perhaps another race in the warp would be the most fun updates Smile
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Fost
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magnulus wrote:
Normal mapping a sprite?

Bizzarely, I've seen this done in a tech demo for a game that looked a lot like Starscape. The end result looked like a bad ray-trace, because of jet black shadows, but that could be improved with more lights so it's a valid technique.

Problem is, you have no fallback with this method - goodbye anyone without Pixel Shader 2(?) cards. 3D would probably be a better option - then you have the ability to turn off shadowing/normalling mapping etc, if you have an older card, but still get some form of lighting based off vertex normals.
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Hamish
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Joined: 15 Mar 2005
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Location: Auckland, NZ



PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was working on a spaceship game like starscape with normal mapped sprites for a bit, it looked nice with some tweaking. Maybe it was the same thing? But seeing spaceships are all angular and non-animated it's probably better to make them fully 3D.
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Fost
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hamish wrote:
Maybe it was the same thing?

Ahh, I'd forgotten about that one - I didn't know it used normal mapped sprites. Any screenshots knocking around still for that?

The demo I'm thinking of is one that a programmer friend of ours had put together - it was just a tech demo, and not intended to become any kind of game. I'll see if I can find it...
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Hamish
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just starting to do some normal mapped sprites for it when we had to scrap it cause I joined up here at Moonpod to do WA, but the white ship in most of these shots is normal mapped (need to refresh to get a new image) - http://www.hamishmcleod.com/ben/spaceshipshots/ and this one with two lights I think looks best http://www.hamishmcleod.com/planets.jpg
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Fost
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that looks really nice. Lighting there seems to be working much better than the demo I was talking about. Oddly enough, the end result looks just like a 3D model though don't you think? I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense to cut out people with older hardware when you could go 3D and have all the versatality that would provide, yet still support older cards.

Then again, I bet a lot of people would LOVE modding a game where you can add your own ships without using a 3D program. Smile
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Chibi



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 271
Location: Denver, CO, United States



PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flumpaphone wrote:
but it would look quite impressive if some off the bosses could rotate.


And the easiest way to do this is to have a jet-black sphere-shaped boss, with turret/cannon emplacements somewhat similar to the aegis's own turrets. The trick is that Jet Black Sphere doesn't actually rotate at all, the turrets/cannons do. The reason being that the cannons would need time to recharge, so the next one spins into place (closest to it's enemies) and fires.

That might be a scary boss... One Aegis-type cannon ready at all times to blast away your Avenger.
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hair65



Joined: 13 Jul 2018
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