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Old game: Total Annihilation
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Rogue4



Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 6
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA



PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2004 9:58 pm    Post subject: Old game: Total Annihilation Reply with quote

If you want a game in whose footsteps you should follow, do some research on Cave Dog's Total Annihilation. It was by far one of the best RTS games ever produced, and its soundtrack alone was worth the $40. Unfortunately, the game was released in a period when TCP/IP gaming was just emerging, and Cave Dog's attempts to integrate TCP/IP into the game failed due to bandwidth limitations of those days (28.8-56Kb connections). From a single player and LAN standpoint, the game was simply amazing. It's LoS system provided hours of gameplay, as creating a base situated on top of a hill provided greater range for your base's offensive artillery, or nestling your airfields within a deep canyon protected them from direct aerial assaults. You were not limited to two or three elevations throughout a battlefield. Instead, there was an elevation subroutine built into the game that created terrain between x & x values, thereby creating hills, depressions, valleys, canyons, etc. These are just a few of the many merits that this game possessed, and I believe that purchasing a copy from eBay would be well worth the <$5. Please do some background research into this game, MoonPod, as I know that revamping this game would create the next StarCraft or Command and Conquer: RA. Thanks for letting me post my two cents. Cool
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2004 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Total Annihilation" and "Starcraft" are my two favourite RTS games of all time I think.
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Rogue4



Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 6
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA



PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad to see that someone else has heard of Total Annihilation. I would love to see MoonPod pick up a game like that and completely turn it around into something profitable. I still have the soundtrack in MP3 format if you want it. The music is so inspiring...it's borderline classical, and yet it works so damned well with the game. The whole concept of resource mining in that game was well thought out, as the introduction of geothermal, nuclear, solar, and wind power generators added so many tech routes. In addition, being able to turn off buildings to allow over buildings to utilize the rare resources (i.e. no solar power at night) made the game even more challenging. I just can't say enough good things about this game. It was amazing! And the fact that Cave Dog introduced a new unit every 1-2 weeks made the game even more fun to play. Of course, some of the later units were a bit stacked, but you have to admit that waiting for a new unit every 1-2 weeks would keep you playing the game and would prevent common strategies from being used so damned often. Think about SC and if Blizzard had introduced the BW units one at a time for each side in free patches. Not only would those units have prevented common strategies from forming, but they would've kept the fun factor for SC at its peak for a longer period of time. Gosh...it's fun to rant on a subject such as this. Laughing
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Fost
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogue4 wrote:
I'm glad to see that someone else has heard of Total Annihilation.


TA is obviously going to be a big inspiration to us, as we believe it had some of the most honed gameplay in the RTS genre. Moonpod Game 2 (have to announce a name soon!) is going to be different to it in many ways though. I just thought I'd mention that, because we don't want people to start expecting the 'TA remake of their dreams' and then be disappointed. Someone still owns the rights to TA remember! In fact I think Atari are working on TA2 now although it isn't the same team. The original guy behind TA (who made DungeonSiege recently) said he was going back to make an RTS soon too. So I think people's TA hunger will soon be fullfilled one way or another.

So yeah: big influence, just keep in mind it isn't a sequel to TA Very Happy
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Rogue4



Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 6
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA



PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, but if TA2 ends up being cut from development, then is MoonPod going to take over the project? Yeah? YEAH? Laughing

Last edited by Rogue4 on Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fost
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if Atari want to give us the IP rights, or if they want to pay us up front to develop it, we'd be happy to. We could put one of the best teams in the industry together inside a month.
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Rogue4



Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 6
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA



PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously? Alright...but I get to be lead beta tester. Hehehe...I got to do that for Tron 2.0 and it was a whole lot of fun. I got to know all of the Disney Interactive beta testers. They're a bunch of cool, weird folks. But yeah! I wanna beta test it! Or I at least want screenshots of the beta test... Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Atari do either of those things Then everyone who has posted to this thread so far can have a free copy. Very Happy





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Khollest



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi everyone, This is my first post here at MoonPods Discussuion 'pod'. Downloaded and loved Starscape.

Anywho, I to am a fan of Total Annihlation as well, The Expansions kicked $$ too. The way you could download new units from the web site was excellent, The multiplayer setup was unieqe and entertaining, Sadly "BoneYards" shut down years ago along with CaveDog entertainments web page.....But as it turns out, Most of you have already said this...so....Hi.
I'll try to keep future post more intelligent.
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starscape junkie



Joined: 15 Jun 2003
Posts: 177
Location: The Thirteenth Colony



PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you could probably pick up the total annihilation licsence for a song and a couple bucks...after TA: Kingdoms (while a decent game, it wasnt worthy of the ta name) bombed Total Annihaltion pretty much dropped from the game dev radar.

My favorite rts's are Total Annihilation, Age of Empires I + II, and of course the legendary starcraft(i still play em all)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

starscape junkie wrote:
you could probably pick up the total annihilation licsence for a song and a couple bucks


Excuse me for making fun here (I mean it in a heartfelt way Smile )

Are you living on another planet?

As far as I know: Infogrammes (Or Atari, or whatever good name they have bought to hide behind these days) own the license. Hence the winged bacon sandwich in the post above! There's no way they will let any license go for next to nothing. More likely they would want to capitalise on their investment by getting an external team to do a sequel on a low budget, then release it themselves.

I heard they had got some Korean people to work on TA 2, but that the deal fell though. The good news is that the designer behind the original TA is making noises about doing a new RTS (not TA as he sadly doesn't have the license). Sorry I forget all the details about this, Poo Bear or Goober will know them...
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starscape junkie



Joined: 15 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have no problem saying that im probably wrong, i just have heard around that after the TA:Kingdoms episode its not as marketable as it once was...And yeah, i generally get the way companies ave a death hold on thier licenses even when theyre completely unmarketable incase someone actually does something decent with it.

The sequel was, well, not that memorable,unbalanced and not good ( have you played TA:Kingdoms?)
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Poo Bear
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original designer is definitely doing a sequel, but he wont confirm yet if Atari are publishing (and hence whether it will carry the TA name), but it seems highly likely.

I did buy TA:Kingdoms and I can understand they were trying to do new things (fantasy setting, switching between multiple races, more story based, etc). Just didn't really work and wasn't want all us TA fans wanted sadly.

Goes to show - you should never get too cocky, it's too easy to make a mistake.
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Bobacles



Joined: 17 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I loved TA.

Corpses were awesome.
They added to the feel of the fights. They sometimes got in the way of your units, becoming a wall of sorts. You'd actually have to change your strategy, when the corpse fields became impossible to fight with. It also made old units obsolete in a way. Even though you could build a hundred small units, they would form a wall of corpses that you couldn't fight in. There might be a tank that costs 10 times as much, but it would be better simply because it didn't become an obstacle after two hits. It added far more to the strategy than the people at Cavedog may have realized.

Offensive units could NEVER be used for defense. They'd work great in a battlefield, when your opponent is tied up with the rest of your army. Otherwise, they were cannon fodder. Siege tanks in Starcraft could be used for offense or defense, making them EXACTLY the same as any other unit. How lame.

The scale of distance weaponry was great. You had weapons that couldn't fire more than a few tiles, but there were behemoths that could fire across the whole map. That was a unique feature of TA, IMO. Every other RTS game required you to have everything -and I mean everything- on the front lines.

You didn't need planes on the front lines, either. They can be called up any time you need them, and were orders of magnitude faster than all the other units. You could never run from them, and you can always have them there when you need them. Another unique aspect of TA, which included completely new strategies IMO.

Boats are almost never included in RTS games. TA had them, though. They were insanely expensive, but any opponent near the coast would have to spend equal amounts to defend against them. You can't build a land squad and a navy at the same time. You had to choose, and hope that your opponent didn't build a counter.

Construction buildings were expensive in early matches. You couldn't afford the materials to build vehicles, K-Bots, Airplanes, and Boats at the same time. You had to choose which ones you wanted. Later on, they became cheap, and necessary in large numbers for your war machine.

Units didn't really have weaknesses. They had strengths. Any unit, if played poorly, suddenly became victim to 10 others. If played properly, it would decimate those same 10 units. A boat may dominate at coastal bombardment, but it is incredibly vulnerable at a channel or river.

Metal makers. Even if you ran out of metal, all was not lost. You had an extra resource you could take advantage of, which many units produced- energy. You could build an entire army, without ever constructing a mine. You can have as many resources as a player that holds the hill full of metal. There was NO EXCUSE to stop expanding. None.

Despite the incredible scale of costs, everything was balanced. Sure, you could build an army of peewees that take 50 metal, but they were terrible. Wouldn't you rather have a Big Bertha, even if it costed 5000?

The big bertha itself. The stationary weapon, which could stay in your base, and lay waste to your opponents. There was no such thing as a stalemate. No amount of defence could protect you from it. You had to fight. You had to get to it. You had to destroy it.

Sorry for being so insanely long winded. But I think that the fact that many of these things were taken from Kingdoms led to its downfall. Resources were constant, there was no long range weaponry, there was no consequence to weak units, and the units had no overwhelming strengths.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes TA was fantastic, very odd that TA:Kingdoms was so bad, there is an implication that acheiving the greatness of the original required a bit of luck and couldn't be repeated. GasPoweredGames (the home of some of Cavedog's staff) are now making TA:2 although they cannot use the name as Infogrammes owns all rights to it. Will it be any good or will it be another Kingdoms disaster?
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