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Halo 2 Hype
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Poll Result
  Does Halo 2 deserve its review scores?  
 
No, Reviewers fell for the hype.
77%
 77%  [ 7 ]
Yes, it IS the perfect game.
22%
 22%  [ 2 ]
 
  Total Votes : 9  

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Fost
Pod Team
Pod Team


Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3734



PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:51 pm    Post subject: Halo 2 Hype Reply with quote

Ok, so I'm playing through Halo 2 right now - and it's fantastic..

..but...

Why is this game getting such crazed reviews and review scores? I've played quite a bit, and the main differences so far are:

You can drive around in the tank.
There's 2 new weapons that are essentially machine guns, and an enemy sniper rifle.
You can use two weapons at a time
You also play a covenant story (but it's all the same as if you were the master chief.)

Other than that, so far, I'm not really getting why anyone with Halo 1 would need to buy the second one. It works nicely as a continuation of the story - kind of like a really big mission pack.

In some ways it's actually worse - I'll go out on a limb here and say I think it looks worse than the first game. It's hard to put my finger on why, but it seems the extra necessity for normal maps has eaten into the xbox's memory. The new bump shaders look great in cut scenes - but that's about the only time you notice them. Sadly it's also the time when you notice mip maps popping in over a few frames. During the rest of the game everything is a little hard to make out (I don't recall having that problem in the first game).

Anyway, my point here is not to slag the game off - It was worth the money; I'm just flummoxed as to why it's supposed to be vastly superior and people are saying it could be the first 'perfect game ever made'. Wondered if anyone else thought the same?

I'm unlikely ever to use xbox live or co-op, so perhaps that's where a lot of the draw is - I'm pretty sure it will look much better as a PC release when they can use higher res textures and screen resolutions.

I'll have to post an update when I finish...


Last edited by Fost on Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Demi Virus



Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 20
Location: Chicago



PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Caboose said in Red Vs. Blue Episode 43: "We are in the future...things are really shiny here,"

Special thanks to my stupid stupid friends that brought me around to watching this...
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Bobacles



Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 123



PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the first game was really a complete story. When you beat it, you felt a sense of accomplishment at the end of it all. Halo 2 just leaves so many things undone, that you feel dissapointed.

Some things about Halo 2 vs. Halo 1...

The AI was gimped in Halo 2, especially on the easier difficulties. In Halo 1 on easy, you could throw a grenade at a guy, and they would try to get out of the way, it was just never good enough. In Halo 2, they just sit there to die. Even when they see their own grenade, they just sit there to blow up. A failed escape attempt is far more satisfying and fun, than no escape attempt.

Man, were grenades gimped. Grenades were the best thing to use in Halo 1 on legendary. You could run into several elites, throw some grenades, shoot a few other guys, and come out with a few scratches. In Halo 2, you could have a grenade in your face, and still not feel a thing. Grenades were very powerful in H1, and perhaps they were too powerful. But there was no reason to weaken them as much as they were. Except for the next problem, maybe.

I can understand why health was removed, but I still don't like it. In Halo 1 legendary, shields were your protection in deep entrenched fights. With enough care, you'd never lose any health and can kill lots of enemies. Health was for going out and rocking the house, and when you ran out of health you had to be careful. At the end of every checkpoint, there was a medpack to fill you up anyways. Maybe there were problems with players starting a new fight with 1 health, but in fact this was a very minor problem, which could have been fixed with a tweak in level design. In Halo 2, it doesn't matter. It's all or none, buddy, and it shows everywhere. No matter what happens, you can always sit for a few seconds and end up at 100% health, and all the damage values are geared around that. Plus, many weapons in H1 hit shields and health differently, but now that element is pretty much gone. This change also affects multiplayer as well, since there is no longer any war of attrition you can do.

The last level in Halo 2 was much lamer than Halo 1. Spoiler (highlight to read):
Wow, you get to kill some guy. You get to do that for the entire game.
Honestly, running for your life in a doomed ring-world, desperately avoiding gunfire while trying to escape is far more fun. Even if all the obstacles didn't make sense.

The sniping! OMG the sniping. Sniping was mostly a choice in Halo 1. If you didn't want to sit back and snipe, you could Rambo your way in, throw some explosives around, and hopefully emerge wounded yet victorious. If Ramboing was too much, you could get yourself in a good trench fight, until you could Rambo and win. In H2, sniping is mandatory, and it is everywhere. You can not hope to live in H2 legendary without spending most of your time prekilling everything in the area first. And enemy snipers on legendary kill with any hit? That's more an exercise in sniping tedium than challenge.

The menu interface with Halo 2 is needlessly complicated, especially for the console. You have to sign in and sign out to change player options? Lame. The menus were made for single-player on the computer, and that hurts the console version. When you try to do multiplayer on a console, you have to struggle with an interface that wasn't made to deal with it. This is really bad, when you consider that Halo 1's interface was good and smooth in that respect.

But for the troubles that it has, it also has good points. There are tons of chances to use every vehicle in the game, and I love that. The ally AI is much smarter and much more forgiving of pain, and thus very fun to play with. Swapping weapons with buddies in the campaign is the bomb. Dual wielding adds a whole new strategy to combat. Jacking vehicles is a blast. The covenant vehicles have been upgraded with strong and useful weapons. You can't go wrong with that.

Don't get me wrong, Halo 2 is really good. Some changes I didn't like, and some I did. I am dissapointed that they did get rid of some of the trenchiness and strategy for ground combat, but it is made up with more fun vehicle fights. Messing up the menus for the console was just horrible, and there was no reason to do that. I look foward to a new Halo, it's just too bad that Halo 2 has hit the limit of what the X-Box can handle. Maybe for the next generation systems, perhaps.
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HunterXI



Joined: 26 Dec 2003
Posts: 476
Location: Playing like there is no tomorrow.



PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a reason you have to sign out of Xbox Live to change player options. It's because your Xbox needs to upload Symbol images + Player appearance when it logs in, thus, it can't change those things mid-stride, or else you and your opponents would see different images.

And if Legendary is too hard for you, don't complain about how hard it is.
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Fost
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Pod Team


Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3734



PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having now finished H2, I have to say: I enjoyed the first one more. I don't want to put people off - in fact, if you own an xbox, it's almost a guranteed purchase, but I just didn't find this satisfying in any way.

I'm pretty sure it's just that my attitude has changed with age - I like games that are more open ended/freeform. Halo 2 force feeds you it's proceedings. In some ways it felt like the later sections of Halo1 where you were traversing endless corridors - not that there's much repetition, but it just felt the same. There weren't any stand out memorable moments, like the opening scenes of Halo 1 , or the beach landing. There also seemed to be pretty much nothing new - the work spent bump mapping all the models was completely lost on me - they just seemed like blurry versions of the original models, and nothing in the game stood out as being a new addition to the old model set (allthough I'm sure there was lots). The new cut scenes occasionally look great -some scenes with commander Keys daughter look especially good, but the whole mipmap popping problem spoils the hard work they put into it.

Also, what was the deal withSpoiler (highlight to read):
the 'Little Shop of Horrors' talking plant? A: it looked completely rubbish, and B: IT'S A TALKING PLANT!!!


It is a good game, and I'm not an average gamer (I'm 100% sure most people will prefer the 'tunnel' set up - you can't get lost easily at least.) I also haven't played it online where apparently a lot of work has been done. My point here, really, is to ask: Does anyone who has played this game think it deserves the review scores it has been getting? or do you think reviewers bought the hype? I'v edited my original post to add a poll Very Happy
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Gravitron



Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 125
Location: Isra(H)el



PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: Halo 2 Hype Reply with quote

Fost wrote:
Ok, so I'm playing through Halo 2 right now - and it's fantastic..

..but...

Why is this game getting such crazed reviews and review scores?



I've found for myself a simple rule which works just fine (at least for most of times).
Stay off the mainstream, think for yourself - don't be a sheep, listen to reviewers you know share your taste from previous times - reject the rest.
And most of all, "don't believe the hype".
Whether you like the product or not, hype only raises false high expectations, which at that point, the product is sure to fail you down.


See, the OnLine world works the opposite from the OffLine one.
IRL, people would go on strikes and protests and such, all the while those who are in favor of whatever it is that's going on will remain silent.
Online, however, critiques are a minority whilst the majority are over zealous enthusiastic supporters, and more often than not, speak up out of being mindless instead of objective and reasonable.
I.E. you say a bad word about startrek, immidiately some trekkie calls up a hoard of his 10000000 minion fellows and gang you up.
Now try to get that many star-trek critiques within 30 seconds, you won't.
Anti-ST sites simply aren't something that's so pressing to people to put up an opposition front against.
The most prominent of these only few exceptions are Anti-MS movements.
Since MS really worries enough people to make them care, enough people are going full frontal up and open about being against it and making list of fellow anti-MS people, whilst the MS supporters ussually will flame and walk off, only a mere few of them at that.
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Bobacles



Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 123



PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HunterXI wrote:
There's a reason you have to sign out of Xbox Live to change player options. It's because your Xbox needs to upload Symbol images + Player appearance when it logs in, thus, it can't change those things mid-stride, or else you and your opponents would see different images.

And if Legendary is too hard for you, don't complain about how hard it is.

I don't use Xbox Live. I play multiplayer games with siblings and friends on the same console. The problem, is that you have to sign everyone out so you can change some settings, then sign everyone back in. To change individual settings (and there are plenty of individuals at times) you have to personally log with each character and change their settings one at a time. Compared to the way that the Halo 1 handled multiplayer on the same console, H2 fails for not being as party friendly.

I don't see the problem with telling X-Box live that you changed your settings. That reason doesn't make sense at all.

I don't have much to say about the solo H2 game. I played mostly co-op. The jump in difficulty from Heroic co-op to Legendary co-op is just insane. First off, you get a smaller screen and a lower framerate, which makes sniping and combat in general quite a bit harder. On top of that everything is more fatal, snipers will instakill you, and worst of all, both players must stay alive. The difficulty change is anything but small. If there was an option to have a limited or unlimited number of co-op lives, that would be much better.

Quote:
(I'm 100% sure most people will prefer the 'tunnel' set up - you can't get lost easily at least.)
I don't think the problem with getting lost in H1 had anything to do with the lack of tunnels. First off, many parts of some levels looked the same, so there was no point of reference to work from. Second, that blasted Cortana who would never tell you if you were going backwards. She was not helpful until the last levels, where she finally gave nav points. Thirdly, there was no map if you did get lost, which I think Cortana could've happily provided. Also, the game should've better emphasized the meaning of green and red doors+beacons, and the arrows on the ground, since that is how you get directions.

There was one part in H2 where I did get lost. After a little while I figured that I just had to go from one Cortana to the next.

Oh! I forgot to point out one major plus to H2. You can change your control settings in-game. No more having to quit because you wanted to have inverted controls.
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Gravitron



Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 125
Location: Isra(H)el



PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobacles wrote:
HunterXI wrote:
There's a reason you have to sign out of Xbox Live to change player options. It's because your Xbox needs to upload Symbol images + Player appearance when it logs in, thus, it can't change those things mid-stride, or else you and your opponents would see different images.


I don't see the problem with telling X-Box live that you changed your settings. That reason doesn't make sense at all.


As an objective person who just read a paragraph, I would have to agree, this is an irrational reason, as it been portrayed by "HunterXI".
What he describes sounds like a "simple" (nothing is simple, per-sa, but there are different varying levels, this is not a brain-buster one to be sure) matter of propogating a new avatar, texture, etc. gfx-related material (except latency itself in uploading it...nothing to it).
All in all, it is basically no more different than relaying regular position packets, which update all the time, this issue at hand only updates per upon request on need.
At SubSpace/Infantry you can switch banners all the time, without a problem, and it takes how long that it takes to propagate throughout the connected players (given, the banners are small sized files, so it doesn't take too long, more than couple seconds, unless you're really lagged).


As a subjective person, I'll stick to the PC and stay away from MS-ware, or any lame consoles at that, to the best of my ability.
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hair65



Joined: 13 Jul 2018
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