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Moonpod Homepage Starscape Information Mr. Robot Information Free Game Downloads Starscape Highscore Table
Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto!
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Fost
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are really into the idea of an editor for Mr. Robot - If done, it probably wouldn't be available on release, but about 3 months after (To give us a chance to make it more user friendly). I have to say though, even in its current state, its better than some of the editors I used on games in the past (On one game I worked on, the artists nearly went on strike because the editor was so bad. The game's producer wrote in an extra month for the lead programmer to work on the editor. After a month he had implmented the ability to run the editor in a window, so you could also run music in the background Shocked At least it made the whole experience less depressing Smile )

We have yet to implement any of the game objects though - so it will all depend on whether they are implemented through the editor, or just hard-wired directly into the game.
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Gravitron



Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 125
Location: Isra(H)el



PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On that notion, I like System Shock's puzzels, simple in their logic, yet challanging (if you used the right difficulty) to figure out the correct algorithem.
If this is going to be a king quest in space suit meets shooting gallery, I flip the finger at m'pod and run amoc.

Pfft fost, user friendly is overestimated.
A good gamer/server op doesn't need no documented textbooks and what not inorder to learn how to operate a game editor.
Then again, I'm refering to the actual game settings, actuators, objects, AOEs and the such, not an art editor.
I do suppose a defected art tool would cause the artists to go nuts, unlike us kind (level designers) which can make do with the worst of editors (basically all we do is put all the elements together in a creative & fun way and set some reaction points) as he's actually needing to create the objects for our content, or something.

(And yes, this is/was a miserable cry in a poor attempt to beg to test your stuff when applicable.)

(p.s.s. why can't I put all of windows into debug mode? Sad ...well I used softice but then some online games had me banned cuz of it, said I'm trying to hack their games... :S)
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Fost
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gravitron wrote:
Pfft fost, user friendly is overestimated.
A good gamer/server op doesn't need no documented textbooks and what not inorder to learn how to operate a game editor.
Then again, I'm refering to the actual game settings, actuators, objects, AOEs and the such, not an art editor.

Yes, I'm talking about the game editor here - not the art editor (which is wings3d in any case).

Just to allay any fears - usability would not be a reason for us to decide against releasing an editor, it's just something we would make sure is right if one was available. I hear a lot of people saying that they get by with bad tools, but I suspect most people have been spoiled by the plethora of great tools on display from mainstream releases. As a 3 man team, we have to prioritise game features over the editor, so it is often in a state where you can only work with it in the same room as the person who wrote it.

The real issue for Mr. Robot will be editing of game object behaviours. There are two options: the editor does them, or a programmer does them.
Currently we are positioning objects in the editor and laying out rooms with it, but that doesn't make a game.

As an example off the top of my head: Say you wanted a conveyor belt to be turned on and off with a switch. We are hoping that would be set up in the editor, but if there are two many behaviours that need to be written, it may be that we have to hand code that into the specific room.
We'd rather avoid that situation; it's better for us if everything can be edited, but if not then the game editor is really a combination of Visual C++ and the editor. In that situation, there would (probably) be little point in releasing an editor, because you wouldn't be able to do anything with it (you'd be missing all the interesting bits that make a game fun).

Anyway, we are, as I say, hoping to avoid that situation, but since we don't know how it will pan out, we don't want to get anyone's hopes up.
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Gravitron



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, as said before (or elsewhere, hmm, your halo post I believe), I'm a far from mainstream.
Non-conformism is the way to go for me. Smile

I agree, people who are used to mainstream tools are used to being spoiled.
Which is again, why I'm against being mainstream.
It develops lazyness, too reliant on others's kindness.
I believe one should know how to do dirty work and be able to handle it.
(Kind of how it's happening with modern life, we become somewhat too dependant on machines to do thinking and mechanical work for us upto a point we grow lazy and forget this primal important knowledge)
I had happen to double some with online games's servers (pirated soft, emulators, free soft...) and some offline ones, and in most cases, the editors are rather crude (x-com TFTD for an example) or the only editor comes in the form of the map designer/level creator while the rest is in some weird text form/SQL DB text (most of your ordinary korean MMORPG).
And they rarely are documented beyond the efforts of a previous player's attempt at editing it.
And what I did was simple mess with things, change this, change that, by way of trial & error or elimination - find out what things do, analyse the data stracture, and etc.
In many cases, most of the figures are pretty straight foreward as to what they do, there are some which are a tad harder to understand their function/way of influence.
And of course there are some variables that are so underlayerd, rarely used and their effect is not one which has a visual manifestation, as such that unless you run a packet sniffer, softice and dissassemble some part of the software you will never find out what they do.
But still, editing what may be refered to as "bad software" can be done.


As for the conveyor belt situation, naturally modular coding is always more prefered than hard coded material, which is where factors such as priority of features or how many times such a feature will be used and if it can be sub-splitted for other similar uses while using same code function or time limitations come to consideration.
And some things are better to be hard coded in the first place.

You could always release certain binaries or let people know where to hex and/or implant exit/reentry bypasses to modify existing code to work for other purposes - thus editing the game, naturally, you'll require a heavy duty hard core modding community for this to be even remotely useful (like the RIP teamBG, fallout modders or helbreath X folks) and anything to come out of it.


No hope is good, no disappointment. Smile
A good motto : lowered expectations. Very Happy (now was that from the "hype" show or the "madTV" one? I forgot)
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SilentDragz



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poo Bear wrote:
Don't focus too much on keys, currently the only reason for their existence is to partition the ship into discrete zones. They aren't really part of any puzzle (yet). Just having one room followed by another is a bit boring so instead a number of rooms are grouped into a themed mapped zone. Completing the game requires you to have completed all the zones in any order and the keys act as proof you have finished a zone.


So they're like the badges on the Pokemon games when you beat a gym leader, when you get them all it unlocks the tournament at the end, or in this case, unlocks the computer's brain or something?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

correct.

Keys should be used to keep you focused on one particular challenge or area at a time. If you can just wander about aimlessly then you would soon get lost and/or forget what you were supposed to be doing.
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