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Revenge of the Titans
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Slyh



Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany



PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:47 pm    Post subject: Revenge of the Titans Reply with quote

I played Revenge of the Titans and have some critical comments about it. You know me. Smile
I didn't find a forum/board at the developer's web site, so I'll write this stuff down here and hope it will reach the right person. Wink

  • There must be something wrong with the mouse handling/implementation. When I first started the game, the mouse movement was extreeemely slow, so I adjusted its speed in the options. Now moving the mouse relatively slow/steady is ok. But moving the mouse a little bit faster, the cursor now accelerates way too much. It feels completely unnatural and really sucked any joy out of playing it. This needs fixing. It would be best to use the OS' mouse settings, I guess. (I never had this problem in any game before, so this is probably not a problem with my computer or mouse settings.) As the game seems to be written in Java, this may be difficult. Smile

  • To reload a blaster or collect the money of a refinery the player has to hover over the rectangular area the blaster/refinery is built on. While certainly logical, it is a little bit unintuitive. I regularly hovered the mouse above the cooling towers or upper parts of a blaster, just above the build area, and wondered why it didn't reload/collect when clicking.

  • The game should stop playing this stomping sound when the game window loses focus/pauses. Annoying.

  • Research needs more explanation. I had a really hard time to figure out what will happen when I research a specific item. (Well, I still don't understand it. So...)

  • Waaaayyyy too much micro management and clicking and scrolling in this game, and too few tactical aspects for my taste. It's too hectic. (For reference: I had no problem with Plants vs. Zombies or Farm Frenzy 3. Smile) I realize there is some research option for automation or something, but that costs money I need to build better turrets. Smile

  • The building menu (at the bottom) is too small.

  • Why does it take between 15 and 20 seconds to start up this relatively simple game on my quite decent hardware?

  • I hate nag screens that open a browser window! STOP THAT!!! Seriously.


What I like:

  • The graphics are quite good. Certainly not everyone's taste, but I like them.

  • The general gameplay mechanics, including research. (While not perfect.)

  • I like that the game is implemented in Java, uses OpenGL and OpenAL. Smile
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 4121
Location: Sheffield, UK



PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know the developer well and it is still in beta so I'll pass on those comments. The mouse problem is strange, I never had that issue, odd.

I liked the fact that later on the gidrahs start to learn when you give them a beating and veer off to find another route. Did you get far enough to notice them doing that? I think that forces you to make fast tactical decisions as the enemy suddenly start reacting more.

It is a very clicky game and as things got bigger and more difficult the micro-managing began to get out of hand, but that is when building the automation items comes in. However, that requires you to have a good understanding of what to research, which is a challenge currently. A pdf manual with a detailed breakdown of what everything is/does would help.
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Chrisj



Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 95
Location: Oxford, UK



PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't have Slyh's problems with the mouse handling; it was a little slow on loading, but speeding it up a couple of notches solved that without introducing the other issues. Not sure why that might be.

Like Slyh, though, I found the research interface somewhat unhelpful: why would I want to research "chemicals", when the game won't give me any information at all about what it might lead to - Faster refining? Acid-spraying turrets? Poison bullets for my blaster turrets? All are possible.

Also with Slyh on the micro-management side; once you've got a few refineries and a dozen turrets down, you don't have time to do anything except click on reload/extract buttons. (I didn't have any problem clicking in the right place, but that might just be because I'd read Slyh's comment before I tried the demo:)

Related to both of the above: I thought I'd give 'automation' a try and see how much it helped. The answer is, it's waaaaaaaay too expensive. What, you thought spending 2500 on automation would solve your problems? No, you also have to pay out (IIRC) 5000 for refinery auto-extract and 7500 for turret autoloader. 'Automation' is just a pre-requisite; you don't get anything in exchange for your investment. That feels very unrewarding, as a player (particularly one with RSI, who's thus allergic to frantic-clicking games[1]) and deprives you of the option of focusing on the tactical gameplay.

[1] which is the main reason why I've not bought Word Pirate [del]Princess[/del]: I like it, but my arms hate it, and there probably isn't much that could be done to change that.
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Rup



Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 363
Location: London, UK



PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrisj wrote:
[1] which is the main reason why I've not bought Word Pirate [del]Princess[/del]: I like it, but my arms hate it, and there probably isn't much that could be done to change that.

Voice recognition! It'd work well for Pirate Princess if you could plumb it in.

And you don't get the red word bonus if you don't add an "aarrh".
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
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Location: Sheffield, UK



PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well. it is still in beta and I've alerted him to this thread so I'm sure some tweakage will be done.

These were my most helpful items that didn't cost too much and I had them quite early:

1. silo - so the refineries hold more and need emptying less

2. scanner - longer range on turrets

3. cooling tower - turrets fire faster

4. nuclear fusion - can't remember why that was good but it was Wink

5. concrete and steel barricades - very handy

6. heavy blasters - get them down early

One important thing is to make sure you have money left to start a new level, don't spend it all in the shop. Conversely, make sure you extract as much cash as possible before killing the last gidrah.
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
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Location: Sheffield, UK



PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A major update and the next set of levels are released, if anyone has bought it then go download the new version, if you haven't tried it yet then now is probably a good time as their have been a lot of game balance type tweaks and improvements.

http://www.puppygames.net/blog/?p=436
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princec



Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 1



PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello from Puppygames!

I'm watching this thread Wink We take note of everything.

About micromanagement: that's what the game's all about! To begin with, anyway. You'll find that as it begins to overwhelm you, you start replacing manual clickery with automation: collectors and autoloaders are reasonably essential by the middle of the Mars levels as the levels begin to get quite large and the crystals further and further away, meaning your attention is diverted too often.

If you find you're clicking an awful lot, you should also be aware you can click-drag to collect multiple refineries or reload multiple turrets all in one swiping gesture. Same for painting buildings - no need to click click click, just paint.

I'm not sure what the mouse issues are... seems to work fine everywhere we try it on. The mouse is hooked up directly to DirectInput's mouse handlers and there's absolutely no acceleration applied at all. It's worked everywhere I've tried it, but evidently there are some strange computers out there where it behaves in a different way. I wish I could figure out what the difference is on those machines. At the very least try twiddling the mouse speed controls in the Options screen. My smarty pants Logitech gaming mouse even has a sensitivity button on it that I can fiddle with. I leave it in the middle.

As for research - well, that's meant to be a little bit of a mystery, just like in real life. What does researching chemicals get you? Well, you're not sure, until you try it. Although some kind soul has made a tech tree somewhere. We'll eventually stick all the stats and the tech tree into a pdf I think, just no time for that now. How about figuring it out for yourself Smile Might be fun. That's what we used to do when we were kids!

Anyway... it would appear I've somehow broken save/restore games and buggered the performance up on Windows for some people with the 1.5 release. Bah.

Cas Smile
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 4121
Location: Sheffield, UK



PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting post on princec's site as he wrestles with people's comments about clarifying how research works and what leads to what.

http://www.puppygames.net/blog/?p=518
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 4121
Location: Sheffield, UK



PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

New version 1.51 is released which implements fixes based on all the discussion of research and a few other things...


'We’ve been listening to your feedback on the Revenge of the Titans beta over the last few months, and with this new update (v1.51) we’ve attempted to address some of the most requested changes. And of course there’s a load of other tweaks, not least finally the ability to sell buildings! We’ve had a fair few requests to be able to see the statistics of researched buildings, and to see in some form the research connections between technologies and buildings. Also, achievements have gone in.'

http://www.moonpod.com/English/about_revengeofthetitans.php
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 4121
Location: Sheffield, UK



PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Small update fixes some bugs and adds a new way to play "endless mode".


http://www.puppygames.net/downloads/SetupRevengeOfTheTitansDemo.exe
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 4121
Location: Sheffield, UK



PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another update, amongst bug fixes this one adds the ever excellent 'survival mode'.


http://www.puppygames.net/downloads/SetupRevengeOfTheTitansDemo.exe
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
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Location: Sheffield, UK



PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A major update, the mechanics of the game have had a major tweak, mining has a much bigger focus (don't get resources from killing enemies any more). The idea is to balance the game out more evenly. Previously you could do really well, kill all the enemies quickly and be onto the next level and have left half the crystals on the previous map! That won't happen now.

http://www.puppygames.net/downloads/SetupRevengeOfTheTitansDemo.exe
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few emergency tweaks required. I thought he'd changed a ton of stuff in that last update! This one is now very close to finished so its definitely worth getting now while its still priced so low.

http://www.puppygames.net/downloads/SetupRevengeOfTheTitansDemo.exe
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Weeble
Starscape Jedi
Starscape Jedi


Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 1143
Location: Glasgow, Scotland



PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't remember if I bought this before or only played the demo, but I got it the other day in the Humble Indie Bundle 2. It's very polished but quite frustrating to learn. I was very surprised that the "level select" is more like an "undo stack": if you go back to an earlier level you lose all subsequent progress! I thought I was just going to get in a bit more practise on an earlier level, but apparently I just wiped everything. :( It seems quite punishing - if you do badly on one level you'll have little money for the next which means you'll do even worse again. What I object to about this is that I suspect it's easy to end up in an unwinnable situation and not realise it for a long time. (I dislike this about Battle for Wesnoth too, despite it being a very good game otherwise.) Still, I suppose you can drop the difficulty level as a get-out, but I'm more inclined to give up on a game than to drop below the default difficulty level. Too much pride?

I appreciate that the research tree has been improved from its earlier form, but it is pretty frustrating that so much of the early research has no tangible benefit and just serves to unlock later research. The tree is also quite confusing - there are various items that I *seem* to have the prerequisites for, and yet they have not become available.

Nevertheless, a fun way to spend a few hours. I love the art.
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 4121
Location: Sheffield, UK



PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's actually at 'release candidate' stage now, so effectively complete. He's had a lot of issues with balance, it does seem to alternate between incredibly hard and the danger of run away income meaning it gets too easy. This latest version is the best compromise so far I think, but I've seen others echo your points.

I'd also agree it looks great, a very recognisable style.
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