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Obligatory "Anything For Mac? (or Linux)" 2007 :)
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SethP



Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 302
Location: Connecticut, USA



PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

icarus wrote:
And to repeat what I have stated many times before.
The dock is only useful if you have 5 programs and the search is only useful if you shove all your docs into one folder.


I really don't get where you're coming from on either of this. Spotlight searches across the hard drive, allowing you to open files deep in nested directories with a single click (and a few characters typed); the dock can hold as many applications, folders, or even smart folders as you want it to. How is that only useful for 5 programs again?

Also, to suggest that the next Windows will be based on Unix is absurd. What's the reason Windows dominates the OS market? Because all the corporations' mission critical software is written for Windows. Making all that software cross-platform is simply impossible; it would be a bankrupting expense. If it were trivial, tell me why the businesses still pay MS hefty licensing fees when they could run a free OS.

Drawing a parallel to Apple's switch to Intel is (excuse the pun) comparing apples and oranges. Apple got something out of the switch to Intel; faster, cheaper hardware. If MS based their next OS on Unix, they'd have to re-write most of the shell (and they'd prolly want to muck with the kernel, too), not to mention attempting to provide some sort of backwards compatability with the NT kernel. And what would they get for all the time and money they put in? I can't see any way in which Microsoft would benefit.


Edit -- Forgot a quick question I had. Can anyone give me a real world example of working in one application and needing to have immedate access to the menu of another? The only time I think I've ever done that is when I want to quit the other application, which an apple-tab apple-q would work just as well for.
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Konedima
Grammar Police
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 1068
Location: Sydney, Land of Censorship



PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for tearing my arguments to pieces. My point remains that I am a computer nut (top of my class - no kidding, my school wants me to help them write course material) and I don't know these things.

About my hardware point, I'm referring specifically to my Logitech G15 keyboard and G5 mouse. I'd probably have as much functionality using them on a mac as I would under Linux - specifically, using hardly any of the special features that I paid for.

And admittedly, despite the fact that I am biased to hell, macs do have some redeeming features. The system is integrated like nothing else, but that does make things like burning cds easy, but severely reduces flexibility, at least easily accesible. Also macs come with built in bluetooth, which makes playing with wiimotes easier.

The interface is somewhat of a touchy subject, and seriously, if I wanted transperancies and ****** glass effects, I'd upgrade to Vista. I prefer functionality over looks, which is why I hate everything.
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Poo Bear
Pod Team
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 4121
Location: Sheffield, UK



PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not wanting to add fuel to what is hovering on the abyss of a flame war:

Last night the gadget show (a uk tech tv show) ran a PC vs. Mac showdown. One presenter had a Sony Vaio laptop running Vista and the other a Mac book pro (?). Interestingly, both laptops cost exactly the same.

They each had to cover the same event i.e. shoot some video, edit it together, write some dialogue, record it and upload it onto the net. They wanted to see how long it would take. The Mac won by a big big margin, I was quite surprised.
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Magnulus



Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 556
Location: Bergen, Norway



PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's pretty cool, Mark. I love it when stuff like that is done. It's quite nice.

Konedima: I never intended to tear anything to pieces. I just quite simply answered some of the attacks on the macs you made. I have never attacked PC users (Through all my life, I've been one most of the time.) or Windows, so I feel I must be allowed to defend the platform that I chose after all this time. I often feel that mac users are labelled as clueless idiots who pick macs because they don't know better. I like to feel that I prove those labels wrong, but maybe I'm the one who's wrong.

Fact is that I like my mac. Most of the time, it works as intended, sometimes not. I can usually figure out why and fix it before long, though. There is no reason why there should be such a big divide between mac users and PC users. I guess people just need things to fight over.
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icarus
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Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Location: Olympia Washington



PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poo Bear wrote:
Not wanting to add fuel to what is hovering on the abyss of a flame war:

Last night the gadget show (a uk tech tv show) ran a PC vs. Mac showdown. One presenter had a Sony Vaio laptop running Vista and the other a Mac book pro (?). Interestingly, both laptops cost exactly the same.

They each had to cover the same event i.e. shoot some video, edit it together, write some dialogue, record it and upload it onto the net. They wanted to see how long it would take. The Mac won by a big big margin, I was quite surprised.


Not really surprising. Macs are good for editing video.

As before. If you want your computer to just work than you should get a mac.
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Ripdog



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 106
Location: Wanganui, New Zealand



PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on, how is the dock only useful with 5 programs or spotlight only useful in one folder? I cant make head nor tail of those arguments...
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icarus
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Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Location: Olympia Washington



PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you put you files in nested folders than you do not need a search engine.

If you have to many programs than the dock will become large and cumbersome.

That is my experience anyways.
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Ripdog



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 106
Location: Wanganui, New Zealand



PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You must admit that a search engine makes it much faster to find the files you want, no matter how they are arranged.

And i have about 15 programs in the dock, i dont see how its getting "Large and cumbersome". The taskbar is mcuh more useless, all you get is a little icon when you have too many programs open, and no freakin expose. Cue clicking through a bazillion icons trying to find which is which...
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Konedima
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 1068
Location: Sydney, Land of Censorship



PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe my perception of macs is a bit askew because of the fact that I only get to use them at school, and regular accounts get very few rights so we don't get to customise anything (thanks to the draconian school policies, we can't even delete icons from our dock - I don't even use half the programs they put on the dock, and half aren't on most of the computers or don't work anyway).

One of the performance tests I like to perform on computers is to open Microsoft Excel (school computers don't have OpenOffice - we get to use Firefox, but only because that's the only web browser their monitoring stuff works with), create a 100x100 grid of random numbers, and then see how long it takes to render a preview of a graph. On the new imacs we have at school with Core 2 processors, it takes about a minute - if I'm lucky. On my PC at home, it does it instantly. It may mean that M$ puts no effort into mac office, but it can't be that bad, can it?

One thing about macs I like is the easy text-to-speech functionality. Good for annoying the guy sitting the next to you Smile.

Negative: I just (about 2 hours ago) added a DVD burner and an extra 512mb to my computer, and I'm thankful that I get the opportunity to, unlike the consumer macs.

Positive: The dashboard can be useful, but it just depends on what widgets are installed. There are equivalents for PC, but I don't think they're as good (most of them you either have to go to the desktop to access or they take up valuable screen real estate).
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Ripdog



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 106
Location: Wanganui, New Zealand



PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason office is so slow is that its running under rosetta - processor emulation.

Um, almost all mac for a good few years have had superdrives... Most people wont need to add one.

Personally, i hated the dashboard, and killed the dock icon. Razz
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Fost
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3734



PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First experiences of vista:

*It's exactly like XP, except the aero ui is quite nice looking - I turned off the default XP fat bubble look and had XP set like win2k look (minimalist).

*The dock thingy where you put gadgets is not somehting I am remotely interested in - turned off.

*default start menu made zero sense to me - couldn't even find how to start a program. Set back to traditional style.

*Popping up boxes all the time asking for my permission to move an icon is a bit silly. Once you have your PC set up though it's ok, so maybe this is a good trade off for security.

*There's a nice system for viewing startup apps and service which made deleting all the crud DELL had installed a breeze.

End result seems a bit like having an XP service Pack with a slightly slicker looking gui. Which is fine by me.
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Konedima
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 1068
Location: Sydney, Land of Censorship



PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ripdog wrote:
The reason office is so slow is that its running under rosetta - processor emulation.

Um, almost all mac for a good few years have had superdrives... Most people wont need to add one.

Personally, i hated the dashboard, and killed the dock icon. Razz
Office is also slow on the PPC emacs, although I'll have to see just how much.

For the record my PC is a few years old, I've upgraded it a few times since then, although I've never bothered to upgrade the optical drive (actually I "borrowed" it and the RAM from a friend who got a new PC).

As for the dashboard, the stuff it comes with by default is mostly ****, but there's some good stuff for download from Apple's website (including games which is pretty much the only way I get to play them under the restrictions).

As for Vista, I'm not paying to get a new UI (as for software that supposedly only runs on Vista? Nerds to the rescue!) but the Vista transformation pack for XP actually looks like quite nice in spots.
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SethP



Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 302
Location: Connecticut, USA



PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

icarus wrote:
If you put you files in nested folders than you do not need a search engine.

If you have to many programs than the dock will become large and cumbersome.

That is my experience anyways.


Organizing files in nested folders does mean that you'll always know where they are, true, but I'm still not seeing how having a search engine is a negative thing. If you have a file you want to get at that's 15 directories deep, you have to double-click 15 icons; but if you remember the name then it's a single click (and a few characters) away. How is having the ability to do both a bad thing?

The dock can become somewhat cumbersome with a massive ton of icons, but there's always the zoom feature that you can turn on which makes the icons under your mouse pop out. My girlfriend's mac has pretty much everything she's ever installed on her computer in the dock (plus every last program that came pre-installed there), and I don't find it to be combersome in any way. Also, you can always use folders (or smart folders) to organize the icons in your dock into groups, if you prefer.

Konedima: Wow, that sucks. I had sort of a similar experience at my high school; luckily in college I have my own laptop which I can abuse however I so choose :p
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icarus
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Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Location: Olympia Washington



PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SethP wrote:

Organizing files in nested folders does mean that you'll always know where they are, true, but I'm still not seeing how having a search engine is a negative thing. If you have a file you want to get at that's 15 directories deep, you have to double-click 15 icons; but if you remember the name then it's a single click (and a few characters) away. How is having the ability to do both a bad thing?

I never said it was negative. I just said I could live without it. And if I needed it I could just use Google's desktop search.

Quote:
The dock can become somewhat cumbersome with a massive ton of icons, but there's always the zoom feature that you can turn on which makes the icons under your mouse pop out. My girlfriend's mac has pretty much everything she's ever installed on her computer in the dock (plus every last program that came pre-installed there), and I don't find it to be combersome in any way. Also, you can always use folders (or smart folders) to organize the icons in your dock into groups, if you prefer.


I have never bothered to count but my start menu probably has 50+ icons in it not counting sub folders (the games sub folder is almost as large as the rest of the start menu Shocked )

with sub folders it more than triples. lets see a dock do that.
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Magnulus



Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 556
Location: Bergen, Norway



PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally use my mac for (among other things) photography. When I come back from a shoot, I have about 150-200 photos I need to pick my favourites from. I use expose to open them all at once so I can easily start picking off the ones that look blatantly wrong, etc. In the end, I usually have about twenty to thirty pictures minimized in the dock, plus all my active programs (traditionally photoshop, itunes, iChat, Adium (MSN), Skype, Colloquy (IRC), Mail and Safari (or Opera). Often more.)
Even with all these programs and pictures in the dock, it's highly usable. Also, since the dock will resize the icons (and previews, in the case of pictures or video) as I mouse over them, it's extremely simple for me to find what I want when I want it.

At work, on a Windows machine, Photoshop minimizes within itself. Good for not cluttering that task bar, but no previews, just a few characters of the names. When they're all named "IMG_09455" etc, that's not helping much.

That's all I really have to say about the dock. To me, it's extremely intuitive and much more useful than the windows task bar.

EDIT: Oh, also, I hate it when my start menu has that many programs, Icarus. If there was something like Quicksilver on Windows, I would have used that instead. I only have four programs or so in the dock at startup. Any other proggys, I find by clicking ctrl+space, tab, tab, <name>. Takes me about five seconds.
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