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Moonpod Homepage Starscape Information Mr. Robot Information Free Game Downloads Starscape Highscore Table
December-06: When will it ever end?!
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icarus
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Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Location: Olympia Washington



PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fost wrote:

I don't really like that idea, because it makes the controls more complex. If we had to rely on players moving the camera about, then I think it would become very difficult. Have you tried the new moving cam? It's subtle, so you may not have noticed it, but I think it makes a massive difference. I never had a bad problem with depth perception though, so more feedback from real players in the beta would be good.


Well my idea only had 3 angles and 4 rotations: Vertical, Isometric, and horizontal; N, S, E, and W.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

icarus wrote:
Well my idea only had 3 angles and 4 rotations: Vertical, Isometric, and horizontal; N, S, E, and W.


That's actually an option some of the old isometric games used. It allows you to mathematically work out where something is in space - a bit like looking at working drawings. It works, but I think perspective shift is a more elegant solution. That way you have a constant reference to the space.

Like I say though - I don't think I'm ideally qualified to evaluate it. I live in 3D apps, so naturally I don't think I have the same troubles most people have.
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Agrajag



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 342



PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fost wrote:
Have you tried the new moving cam? It's subtle, so you may not have noticed it, but I think it makes a massive difference.


I haven't even noticed any difference at all, must be really subtle Razz (although I never had any problem with depth perception to begin with).
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Inane



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 173



PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fost wrote:
Haven't seen it myself yet, every time I've been the cinema has been packed. She's listed as 'Hot Room Technician' in the imdb credits.

Does that mean she's a technician for a 'Hot Room' or that she's hot and a room technician?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agrajag wrote:
I haven't even noticed any difference at all, must be really subtle Razz (although I never had any problem with depth perception to begin with).

Ha, well, oddly enough, the camera now moves nearly all the time, whereas before it hardly moved at all unless you were near the edges of the room. It's funny, but you don't notice the change (which is great), but I think you do benefit from the constant perspective shift.
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happymonster



Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 38
Location: Nottingham, UK



PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm.. I think I can picture what you are saying with the camera, but without a video or demo it's hard to be sure.

I'm more concerned about how the controls work, is it mouse based?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

happymonster wrote:
I'm more concerned about how the controls work, is it mouse based?


You can use the mouse, but it's not point and click, it's more of an action game control system - cursor keys control your direction, then there's a jump key etc. If you've played games like Head Over Heels or Knight Lore, it's very similar. The (optional) mouse control system recreates this, and actually (even to our surprise) turned out to be equally usable. Pretty cool really - you can use mouse, pad or keys and the game works well.
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Chrisj



Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 95
Location: Oxford, UK



PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fost wrote: wrote:
You can use the mouse, but it's not point and click, it's more of an action game control system - cursor keys control your direction, then there's a jump key etc.


Please tell me that the keys are configurable (I know they are in Starscape, but it seems the sort of thing that people easily forget); I have a really weird keyboard to help with my RSI and games with non-configurable keys are just not playable, as a rule. And Mr Robot looks like exactly the sort of game I've been loudly bemoaning the lack of for many years - even more my kind of thing than Starscape is.
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
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Location: Sheffield, UK



PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes the keys are configurable.

p.s. Years of typing have left me with a touch of rsi, I use one of those microsoft split ergonomic keyboards. It took a while to get used to but it helped a lot.
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happymonster



Joined: 03 Sep 2005
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Location: Nottingham, UK



PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've played isometric games on the 8 and 16bit machines. But one problem I always had was matching the diagonal movement of your character with horizontal and vertical cursor keys.

How have you dealt with this in Mr. Robot?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

happymonster wrote:
But one problem I always had was matching the diagonal movement of your character with horizontal and vertical cursor keys.


Ahh yes - that's come up in the beta. We use the old style method of up = north west, so you can line yourself up with most of the jumps easily. However, some people have asked for up=into the screen. The difficulty here, is that we know most people won't change the default controls, so what should we pick as the default? There doesn't seem to be a consensus that one method is better than another. We did have one great suggestion of making the first room a place where you 'calibrate' your robot, so you can set something like this up, but that might be something for an update.

Admittedly, it's something we never had a problem with as we have that history with isometric games, so we didn't foresee it being an issue for anybody.
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Ari



Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 15
Location: New Zealand



PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On depth perception issues- one design fix that can really help is theming the areas at specific heights with different colour types or texture types. Knowing the the "red area" is the lowest one really helps. Smile

Sounds like your programming fix is working good too though Smile
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Fost
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ari wrote:
On depth perception issues- one design fix that can really help is theming the areas at specific heights with different colour types or texture types. Knowing the the "red area" is the lowest one really helps. Smile


I've done that to some extent with lights. One of our local testers has the problem (it's not really an issue for Mark and I, so it's difficult for us to notice it), and she made a list of the worst rooms. I went back in and tweaked the lighting on them all, which helped a little bit.
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happymonster



Joined: 03 Sep 2005
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Location: Nottingham, UK



PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ahh yes - that's come up in the beta. We use the old style method of up = north west, so you can line yourself up with most of the jumps easily. However, some people have asked for up=into the screen. The difficulty here, is that we know most people won't change the default controls, so what should we pick as the default? There doesn't seem to be a consensus that one method is better than another. We did have one great suggestion of making the first room a place where you 'calibrate' your robot, so you can set something like this up, but that might be something for an update.

Admittedly, it's something we never had a problem with as we have that history with isometric games, so we didn't foresee it being an issue for anybody.


What you could do is go to a special one exit (north-west) first room and then say in a text box, use the cursor keys to move to the exit. Then, detect which key the player presses and assign the controls accordingly. That would be an unobtrusive way to detect the players natural control preference..
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happymonster



Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 38
Location: Nottingham, UK



PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How is the game coming along? Smile
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