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What survival needs...
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Chibi



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 271
Location: Denver, CO, United States



PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:53 pm    Post subject: What survival needs... Reply with quote

Asteroids that float in from the sides...
(Or ice-asteroids spawn when you reach higher zones...)

A different 'store' switching system;
(Perhaps the letters R, F, and V instead of R+up/down to select)

Different colored tractor beams, so you know when you've upgraded
(This could also go for the game at large)

Infinite lives mode...

I'm sure others can think of other things they'd like to see.
And I just figured; Other games have these types of things as a sort of 'unlockable bonus feature'. Now, I know we've all been taking them for granted, but what if they were unlockable as you progress through the game? Get a medal for collecting five of something, and you've just unlocked Suvrival mode!/Instant Action!/1024x768 play mode! (And unlimited lives survival mode when you beat the game?)

Okay, now I'm just drawing straws...
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Sorrow



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 146
Location: Australia



PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i unlock the game when i fork out money for it.


i feel cheated when i have to "work" to just be able too play the game.
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Magnulus



Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 556
Location: Bergen, Norway



PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like some unlockables. Like the alternate ending for the King Kong game. That was pretty cool. It gives you a new incentive for picking that controller up and playing the game again, and it gives the game a different kind of flavour the second time around.
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Lothar
Starscape Jedi
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Joined: 21 Dec 2003
Posts: 522



PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're going to have "unlockables" they should at least be part of the same game mode as you have to play to unlock them, and they should be small "extras". I don't want to have to play X much of the normal game to get to survival mode (especially if I download the game on a friend's system and just want to show them what it's like!)

These kind of unlockables are cool:
- once you've played through the game once, you can access a super-high difficulty level where you restart with your end-game stuff and face even bigger enemies
- once you've reached a certain score on survival, you get access to survival with new enemies
- if you play certain sections out of order, you gain access to certain easter eggs (example: picking up the Xenarch drones in zone 1 and then delivering them to the outpost in zone 3 could give you a different technology.)

These are not cool:
- you have to beat one game mode in order to gain access to another (instant action, survival, the main game, etc.) -- I paid my money; I want to play!

As for the other suggestions:
- I could go for occasional extra asteroids, as long as they weren't annoying. Maybe make them worm rocks?
- we definitely need a better store / upgrade system. Man is it annoying when I can't repair because I'm busy flying and the repair key keeps trying to resupply my missiles!
- it would be really nice to have a "configurable survival" mode, where you could build your own survival ships within certain tech and mineral limits, and then play survival with them.
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Fost
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lothar wrote:
- you have to beat one game mode in order to gain access to another (instant action, survival, the main game, etc.) -- I paid my money; I want to play!


I generally agree there, although I thought of one that might work that way: Boss atack mode. I'd like a set of instant action missions featuring all the bosses but that are only unlocked after you defeat that boss in campaign mode. Sounds fair?

Lothar wrote:
we definitely need a better store / upgrade system.

Any suggestions here are welcome, as if we're lucky we may have time to do some work on Survival for 1.6 If there's somehting that might be easy to implement, then we may put it in Smile
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Lothar
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Joined: 21 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fost wrote:
Lothar wrote:
- you have to beat one game mode in order to gain access to another (instant action, survival, the main game, etc.) -- I paid my money; I want to play!


I generally agree there, although I thought of one that might work that way: Boss atack mode.


Yeah, that makes sense. Don't want people being able to perfect their boss 3 technique before they've actually faced the boss! It's best to make them see the bosses for the first time where they actually belong.

Quote:
Lothar wrote:
we definitely need a better store / upgrade system.

Any suggestions here are welcome


The best I can think of is having different keys for "upgrade", "new missiles", and "repair" instead of using the arrows to switch from one to the next.

If you wanted to reduce the number of keys, you could set it up so that new missiles get bought automatically whenever you try to fire missiles but they're empty. Have the "buy missiles" line flash a different color when you're in that situation, so that if you're saving up for something else you know not to fire missiles. Then just use two keys for "repair ship" and "upgrade" (maybe R and T, or R and F)...

You could probably add a button to the survival launch screen (I know, adding buttons is harder than it sounds!) to allow users to configure their survival repair controls. Give them the option of "classic mode" (arrow keys + R to select) or "multi-key mode" (select different keys for repair, upgrade, and buy missiles). That way, people using specialized controllers with limited buttons can keep playing how they have been, but those of us using keyboard can choose to use extra buttons to make it easier for us.
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Fost
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lothar wrote:
The best I can think of is having different keys for "upgrade", "new missiles", and "repair" instead of using the arrows to switch from one to the next.

Only problem there is that they would need adding to the key config page, and config save data. Plus, the rest of the game relies on a fixed number of keys, so it's not totally in-keeping.

Hmm, the 'R' key is really the only free key, which isn't a lot to work with is it.!
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Weeble
Starscape Jedi
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Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 1143
Location: Glasgow, Scotland



PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fost wrote:
Lothar wrote:
we definitely need a better store / upgrade system.

Any suggestions here are welcome, as if we're lucky we may have time to do some work on Survival for 1.6 If there's somehting that might be easy to implement, then we may put it in :)


Here's the last discussion we had on this topic.

I still think the single biggest problem with the current survival purchase mechanism is how easy it is to accidentally move the buy cursor when you only meant to tap the button to buy more of the selected item.
I'd accept the interruption of the pace to pause the game for purchase selections, so long as the UI was very quick and easy to use.

Here's my suggestion:

http://pics.livejournal.com/clockworksaint/pic/0001531g
http://pics.livejournal.com/clockworksaint/pic/00016z8g

Effectively a radial menu. Very similar to what you have at the moment, but with less state (player needn't worry about what is selected at any given moment) and a fancy (and no doubt annoying to implement) UI. When you press the call button, the menu I've shown there pops up under your ship, with "CANCEL" highlighted. If you let go of the button again, the menu disappears. If you press in a direction, the item in that direction is highlighted for so long as you press in that direction, when you let go the cursor reverts back to the cancel button in the middle. If you release the call button while an item is highlighted, you buy it.

The game needn't pause while the player is doing this, but I think it should pause if the player holds down the call button for somewhere between half a second and a whole second. This keeps the game flowing most of the time, but lets you take more care with your selection if you feel the need.

One thing I considered is that you often need to buy ammo more than once to fill up fully. If this interface is too clunky to buy ammo repeatedly, it might be reasonably extended like so:
http://pics.livejournal.com/clockworksaint/pic/0001732g
When you push down for a second or so, it changes to show the maximum amount of ammo you can buy. Again, release the call button to buy that, or stop pushing down to return to highlighting cancel.

Side-note: I just tested out buying ammo in 1.5c, and it's really baffling how much the games wants you to spend on ammo. If you fire off a few missiles it seems to give you the cost to reload half of your ammo. If you buy once it then shows you the cost to reload fully. But if you don't buy again to fully reload, when you start firing again, the cost drops to show the cost to reload only half of the ammo you have spent since you last reloaded. I think. I don't understand why it works it out like this.
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Poo Bear
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the radial menu idea, makes a lot of sense.
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Chibi



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 271
Location: Denver, CO, United States



PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fost wrote:
Hmm, the 'R' key is really the only free key, which isn't a lot to work with is it.!


Drats. Well, I like Lothar's suggestion for the missle key buying missles when you're empty. But then again, the radial menu DOES look good!
I was trying to think of some good way to implement this using only the R key, before I even read that it was the only key available...

How about this...

When your resources reach the target resources for the new ship, your ship automagically gets the upgrade. Since it includes missles and full health, none of the other upgrades matter at that point. (You can even pause the game, show something radial-menu-looking that says "Resources Acquired. Ship upgraded to Avenger!")

The "W" key (or missle key) will buy missles (and fire one) when you press it, if your missles are empty and you have resources enough.

The "R" key will only repair your health, assuming you have resources.

Sound good? And less complicated!
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Weeble
Starscape Jedi
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Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 1143
Location: Glasgow, Scotland



PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bear in mind that there is strategy involved in buying ship upgrades, in part because you get a free repair and reload. Particularly with the upgrade from a prowler with blasters and plasma torpedoes, to an avenger with ions and a small number of weedy nova bombs, you really want to hold off on the upgrade until your prowler is badly damaged or completely out of ammo, and even then, it may be worth reloading or repairing the prowler to help you save up and skip over the underpowered first avenger. So forcing the player to upgrade may not be popular.
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Lothar
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chibi wrote:
When your resources reach the target resources for the new ship, your ship automagically gets the upgrade.


Please no... I consider the upgrade from the prowler with torps to the avenger with ion 1's to be a serious DOWNGRADE. I want to wait on that until I've exhausted my ammo and collected nearly enough mins to upgrade a second time.

I like the radial menu idea. Way smooth. Why not expand the idea a little bit? Holding down R brings up the menu, and then you can buy ammo (some, or max), repair (some, or max), or upgrade your ship by hitting the arrows once or twice before releasing the R key. Whichever arrow direction is not used should move you back to the "don't buy anything" state so you can always use it to exit the buy menu.
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Fost
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lothar wrote:
I like the radial menu idea. Way smooth. Why not expand the idea a little bit?

Imagine if we could come up with a slick way to upgrade any part of the ship with all the items from starscape Smile that would rock.

I'd better shut up before Poo Bear starts beating me 'stop giving them ideas!!'
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HEL 9000



Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 36
Location: Behind you...



PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you should getg an escape pod with a tractor beam in survival mode at the start and you have to reach 10 minerals before getting into your runabout, and then also when all your ships blow up to the point of being past runabout you get another escapeee pod =)
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myy



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MYY

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