FAQ Search
Memberlist Usergroups
Profile
  Forum Statistics Register
 Log in to check your private messages
Log in to check your private messages
Moonpod Homepage Starscape Information Mr. Robot Information Free Game Downloads Starscape Highscore Table
Problem with star-map...
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Discussion Pod Forum Index -> Starscape View previous topic :: View next topic  
 Author
Message
Chibi



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 271
Location: Denver, CO, United States



PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:13 am    Post subject: Problem with star-map... Reply with quote

I was reading up on good olde St-Archon-trol 1, and a review pointed out the only bad thing about their game engine; the map. It was then that I noticed that StarScape has a similar problem...

"The general idea is sound, the graphics are not stunning but are fun and well-designed, the sound is adequate, and the gameplay is fun. Unfortunately, the strategy game is almost ruined by one flaw - the '3D' starmap. It's three-dimensional, it spins! 'What a good idea!' thought the developers, and instantly plopped it into the game. Mistake. It is unfortunately very difficult to tell how to get to another system more than one move away. At least other games that used this method - like Ascendancy - bothered to show you the different routes. As it is, it is impossible to plan a long term strategy."

Another reason 3d shouldn't be JUMPED into. But Starscape has this problem already; We do not see the long-range routes on our starmap. We only see the immediate pathways. Sectors that are more than one jump away, we do not have the priveledge of finding out how to get to them.

Could someone add maybe a lighter set of lines that shows the network of pathways between the sectors?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Magnulus



Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 556
Location: Bergen, Norway



PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, 3D was never about 3D GAMEPLAY, Chibi. They never talked about giving Starscape 3D gameplay, only sort of replacing the sprites with models.

And I don't see how Starscape has the same problem as Star Control. The starmap isn't 3D. It's a very easily surveyable and clean map. What's your point?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Flumpaphone



Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 86



PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Transfer nodes are marked on the main map, and transfer nodes always appear to be connected by proximity. So, it is relatively simple to extrapolate where you can go.

I take your point about 3D maps as I found the map in Frontier difficult to navigate. However, I believe in this instance it would actually make things harder to read. The map as it stands is simple to use and easy to navigate, so I would not change it.
Back to top
View user's profile
Magnulus



Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 556
Location: Bergen, Norway



PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I forgot to mention that. I also find that I like it when the games leave my brain with at least a LITTLE bit to do, and extrapolating on further connections is NOT that taxing.

Come on, can't you do ANYTHING yourself?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Fost
Pod Team
Pod Team


Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3734



PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, it's always good to look at things from some different angles. You have to admit, there's some ideas knocking around here that not many people have considered before.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Lothar
Starscape Jedi
Starscape Jedi


Joined: 21 Dec 2003
Posts: 522



PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I created my own map that had all the node connections drawn out just so I wouldn't have to fight with the interface. IMO, known connections *should* be drawn somehow (even if just in light colors).

On the other hand, nodes you haven't visited or at least passed by shouldn't show you their connections. You should have to explore to find your way around, the game should just remember the exploring you've done.
Back to top
View user's profile
Chibi



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 271
Location: Denver, CO, United States



PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magnulus wrote:
And I don't see how Starscape has the same problem as Star Control. The starmap isn't 3D. It's a very easily surveyable and clean map. What's your point?


I wasn't talking about 3d gameplay or 3d maps here; Only that the original page was talking about 3d maps being implemented poorly and I noticed a correlation.

When you are in Zone 5, and every sector has a LARGE RED DOT on it, and you want to plot the fastest way across the Zone (fewest jumps), or the easiest way to get to a hyperspace node (fewest jumps), you are not given that option.

We are not all like Lothar; Gifted with the ability to take our time in making meticulous hyperspace maps. Some of us just want to see it. Besides, why can't the aegis just fly straight to where it wants to go, and not have to take these zig-zags? I vote for All secondarily-accessible(2-jump) and maybe even tertiary-accessible nodes connected with gray lines.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Magnulus



Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 556
Location: Bergen, Norway



PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great idea! Why didn't I think of that before! The game will be SO much better when we can just SKIP the whole zone alltogether! Why don't we just go all the way and let the Aegis move to the final zone right away?! I mean, I hate having to do all that jumping about and actually PLAYING the game. It's just too taxing, and I don't have time to do that sort of thing. Have a heart, guys! Let us just skip the game!
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Chibi



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 271
Location: Denver, CO, United States



PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magnulus wrote:
Great idea! Why didn't I think of that before! The game will be SO much better when we can just SKIP the whole zone alltogether! Why don't we just go all the way and let the Aegis move to the final zone right away?! I mean, I hate having to do all that jumping about and actually PLAYING the game. It's just too taxing, and I don't have time to do that sort of thing. Have a heart, guys! Let us just skip the game!


Appreciate the hostility, but what I mean is;

You need to SEE where you can go, rather than get in needless fights.
Imagine this scenario;

You are in one sector. Having killed all the archnid in this sector, you desire to go to another sector. It looks maybe a hop or two away. Now, two sectors look like they should be able to go to this sector. You can go to both of THOSE sectors, but you can't see whether or not both of them link to the sector... So, which will it be, right, or left?

OOPS, you picked the one that takes 5 jumps to get to the sector you wanted to go to, and you get in 5 needless fights before you get there. Turns out if you chose the OTHER way, it would have just been 2 jumps. BUT YOU DIDN'T KNOW BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T SEE THE LINES.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Chibi



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 271
Location: Denver, CO, United States



PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lothar wrote:
I created my own map that had all the node connections drawn out


That's cool... Did it look anything like these? Wink


Last edited by Chibi on Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:50 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Chibi



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 271
Location: Denver, CO, United States



PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:50 am    Post subject: The problem... Reply with quote


Here is "The Problem". We have a vast area of space, with relatively few mineral resources scattered in small patches. We need to arrange it in a relatively "flat" map, even though the terrain is not relatively flat.


Our 3d navigational computer has arranged a series of "sectors", that is, areas with vast mineral resources, concentrations of the crystalline factors that some of our crew have more lovingly called "Emerald", "Topaz", and "Amethyst" for no reason other than their color. The problem is; How do we plot a course between these sectors without overtaxing our hyperspace engines and causing the warp core to breach?


Rin Fubuki pondering "The Problem"...

We think we have formulated a solution.


We have judged These Sectors as "too distant" for hyperspace jumps. Well, some of them aren't too distant, but there are turbulent patches of "Dark Space" that will cause our ship to fold itself backwards if we try to hyperspace through using fourth-dimensional technology. You don't want to know WHAT that would be like, and technically, neither do we.

So here is what we've come up with.


We beseech you, please journey using ONLY these pathways, and no other pathways lest ye surely be turned inside out.


My point is, there isn't any good reason that some of those pathways are red, unless I use creative thinking and make my own reason. Why can't I get from here to there, when some of those jumps are longer? I'm not trying to beat the game in one jump, but if I can't tell from two jumps away that it's not going to be an easy trip using the path I've chosen, then there needs to be a revamp.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Fost
Pod Team
Pod Team


Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3734



PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh, so you are actually on about drawing the pathways all the time? I got confused, because you mentioned drawing the transfer node pathways. Thought you meant you'd like transfer node paths drawing everywhere.


Hmm, well, it's a new one.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Chibi



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 271
Location: Denver, CO, United States



PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, only I can't make the white dots turn gray in irfanview so well, and I don't have photoshop...

Anywhose, I mean, the closest ones can still be white, like they are.... But the paths further out should be there too, only darker. That's my idea, yes, like you said. =)

I tried to write it in an illustrated fanfictiony way.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Poo Bear
Pod Team
Pod Team


Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 4121
Location: Sheffield, UK



PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah I see what you mean now, the veil of confusion lifts.

I tried to make sure there were never any dead-ends on the zone maps, that you would (hopefully) never have to back track more than 1 jump. I agree with what you are saying, I just didn't think it was a big problem?

What do other people think, does this problem come up a lot during play?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Weeble
Starscape Jedi
Starscape Jedi


Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 1143
Location: Glasgow, Scotland



PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There were one or two spots where the nodes aren't linked up quite like you'd think, slightly moreso when you haven't yet uncovered a Xenarch node. I think I remember getting confused and having to backtrack somewhere on the right of Zone 5. I don't remember it being a big issue. More of an issue for me was how fiddly it could be trying to navigate the grid with keys. I don't think there are any paths actually blocked, but it's not always intuitive how to select a path when there are two or three close to each other. That said, I don't have Starscape to hand at the moment, so I'm working off of my dodgy memory.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Discussion Pod Forum Index -> Starscape All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group