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Starscape update/sequel ideas
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Agrajag



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 342



PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Online co-op? Very Happy
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icarus
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Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Location: Olympia Washington



PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well everyone seemed to be interested whenever someone sugested that there should be a starcape mmo.




DISCLAIMER! this comment is neither endorsed or supported by Moonpod Games LTD. It merely reflects the general sentiment of the forum community. Icarus is in no way affiliated with Moonpod Games LTD.
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Inane



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 173



PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ew, MMO Sad
I was thinking more... Less SUCK.
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icarus
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Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Location: Olympia Washington



PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. You are thinking of WoW or RO.

Starscape online would have no leveling up or dungon crawling. It would be starscape only as an MMO.

Instead of spawn camping you would be mining and selling the resources at space stations to buy better weapons and ships.

You would start with a fighter but you could save up to eventually get whole space stations.
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Inane



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 173



PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trust me, I've played more than a few MMO 'asteroids'.
The newer players always get their heads smashed in over and over by the older players.
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SethP



Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 303
Location: Connecticut, USA



PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

icarus wrote:
No. You are thinking of WoW or RO.

Starscape online would have no leveling up or dungon crawling. It would be starscape only as an MMO.

Instead of spawn camping you would be mining and selling the resources at space stations to buy better weapons and ships.

You would start with a fighter but you could save up to eventually get whole space stations.


The problem with MMOs is that they're a no win genre. Either the devs make the progressive challenges in the game easy and quick, or they make progress difficult and slow. Making them easy and quick means there will be hundreds upon hundreds of user owned stations taking up every square pixel of available space. Making progress take a long time is the exact thing that makes games like WoW or RO suck, but it's the only way to preserve any value among the high-end rewards.

Ideally, there could be a near infinite number of challenges, making the high end rewards valuable while having speedy progress towards those rewards. Unfortunately, it takes much less time for the players to solve a puzzle than for the devs to create it, so you'll still run out of content eventually.

Even making the players create the content doesn't really solve the problem. Either the devs make the content creating process very difficult and limited, or there's a huge overabundance of "ub3R beem LAzrZ of Ur MOM" floating around.

I'm gonna have to go with Inane on this one: MMO = teh suck
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Inzoum



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Posts: 36
Location: Wavre, Belgium



PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anyone here remember Subspace (reverse-engineered, re-secured, upgraded and re-released as "Continuum" after Virgin Interactive Entertainment went poof)?

This is a good start for a "space shooter + online play" model
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Fost
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3734



PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inzoum wrote:
This is a good start for a "space shooter + online play" model


I'll attract a few flames here by saying Subspace is the biggest bag of **** I've ever played. People LOVE that game, so I spent a lot of time playing it (Well, every day for 3 weeks is a lot of time for me anyway). Had zero fun whatsoever. I found it was confounded by the fact that people playing it were extremely elitist. Perhaps if I'd been playing if from the very beginning I'd appreciate it, but as it stands I certainly would not use it as a starting point for a good online experience.
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Darth Dallas



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 411



PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't say much for MMOs having changed my mind back and forth whether to invest any time in them and so never really did, but for general online play, I like the notion of different modes of play such as co-op, head to head matches (2-6 players or so), capture the flag, domination (control either a particular grouping of nodes or an entire zone).

I'm sure there's a couple of others I'm missing that could be well adapted to the Starscape environment.

And even with some of these there could be variations to the type of mode.

Co-op could have a couple - one where you're the good guys fighting the bad AI guys in the same manner as in the campaign with the same objectives. Another could be its reverse, you be the bad guys fighting to block the good AI. You could have 'survival' mode team play as well as a sub category of a co-op style. Standalone arenas just battling a succession of worms, just boss fights etc.

Head to head is just an extension of this with players controlling both sides, and even this mode can have variations (made more challenging too if there's more than two empires to control) - control all zones, or fight it out in smaller sessions in one zone (a good setup feature would be to choose the length of play by what zones you want to play by size and queue them up how you see fit in a straight up order or randomize them).

Capture the flag could have a bunch of variations to it too (both head to head play style or playing one side with the rest as bots). For starters you could select the size of the play arena - it could be one node for the smallest of games, one, or many entire zones. You could also change up what the flag/prize/goal would be.

i.e. lost crew, drive components, equipment drop of some sort (like the information module the miner ships drop for example). Another variation I can't remember ever seeing in a capture the flag type game is whether each side's flag can be mobile from the start controlled by a player on the team as opposed to being in a fixed spot each time (it wouldn't matter where its planted since you'll always see where the flag and enemies are on radar). So basically a team flag bearer that's mobile from the start - you could choose how tough it would be by what unit the bearer could be, some fighter unit, smallish cap ship such as a mine layer, or station. Basically the challenge there is in the difficulty of the units chosen, whether the flag is fixed or directly controlled, then the arena size (and perhaps bot enemies to throw a little chaos in).

Also what could be different since the team flag bearer can be mobile is that you could shorten the distance between your bearer and the other team's if you were doing well.

Domination isn't dissimilar to capture the flag, except there could be multiple nodes you have to briefly occupy so that it flips to your side's control.

Anyway, I'm sure there's probably more variations on traditional multiplay modes I'm missing that could be fun. Although I'm not sure what all ought to be included on a leader board situation.
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Tryagain Infinity



Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Posts: 168
Location: You see that tank behind you...



PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder what a game of Starscape capture the flag would look like when the flag bites back?

Say you run over to the enemy base and the flag is a drone that wails and shoots at you as you try to get back to your flag. Just a little something to mix things up.
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2_Late



Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 4



PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It can be much simpler then that to do Multi-Player. Don't pause the game a ship dock with the Aegis ,give control control a docking bay and ship in that bay to another player, and by default hand ever other aspect of game play(navigation, production, and research) to the hosting player. A cue for production so each player had some say in what they had would be nice, but not necessary.


,and yes, I will glare at you for bad mouthing subspace(continuum now). I agree last time I picked it up the it was dominated by...humility impaired players. I still remember playing it from the beginning when there where at least five full teams playing CTF on any given server CTF server at all times. (Ahh...the old days) I dare say it was more addictive then World of Warcraft, City of Heroes, Ever Quest(1&2), Anarchy Online, Ultima Online, and Guild Wars combined! And it's free now to boot.
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Tryagain Infinity



Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Posts: 168
Location: You see that tank behind you...



PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well to get this topic away from the whole MMO debate...

I have been playing Starscape a tad lately and I noticed the Aegis' scoops don't suck up multiple minerals, unlike your fighter scoops. I think this would qualify as an easy fix. I've tried having the Aegis chase me around the map with two scoops and two drills, however; it is not as efficient as regular mining because the scoops miss so much.

Edit: Additionally the Aegis scoops don't suck up crates at all.

Edit again: Idea How about a laser for your fighters that directs the Aegis to move and attack asteroids and enemies. That way your not completely out of the mining loop. I'm sure this device has great potential in other areas.
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Darth Dallas



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 411



PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I wonder what a game of Starscape capture the flag would look like when the flag bites back?

Say you run over to the enemy base and the flag is a drone that wails and shoots at you as you try to get back to your flag. Just a little something to mix things up.


I would think that if its a traditional flag-is-fixed scenario where you have to go somewhere specific each time to reclaim it, it would be a sort of given it'd have some defenses. Yet another area that could be selectable in terms of what the flag's unit is (if its a unit - bot or player), armed or not, mobile or not (mobile could mean two different things here, is it node to node travel within one zone only, or can it warp to different zones?).

Speaking of warping and radar - I'm thinking it might need a change for multiplayer. In order to not only circumvent the warp animation you might normally see in single player, just do away with it here, and put a second mini radar in the left panel (ability to minimize the window would possibly be a nice extra if it clogs the view) - also use this as another way to navigate except it'd be a miniature map of the current zone and all its nodes.

You could have two navigation modes as well. More aggressive players might choose to navigate while within a node, not in warp and travel from battle to battle a little faster - if not simply with less screen toggling (time delays could be integrated here in terms of if they did toggle screens, then navigated that way). The second group of people I'd call those on guard duty - they'd probably opt for more selection in what battles they participate in by staying in warp mode so they can see all the zones and monitor friendly as well as enemy radar blips on the larger map view.

I suspect however, that in any domination game, CTF, head to head campaign etc. players are also likely to conglomerate around the nodes that connect multiple zones. I don't mind that as it forces confrontation and competition, not to mention chances to be in epic type battles every so often.

Other functions probably ought to be considered disabled in certain game modes - the need to dock with stations to repair and such. I'd just replace a portion of resources with power-ups that do that for you. Any resources that get collected as well in certain modes could go towards repairs or ammo rearming across the whole team (some might rail against this part but that just illustrates another selectable option in the menu before you play - drops shared with team? Yes/No etc.).

On scoop performance, I agree, I think it, or another researchable version of one could be adapted to suck in equipment drops, crew and the like. Maybe go different as far as range, pull, as well as beam dispersal width. Maybe one could be a large version that replaces your main cannon. Perhaps another variant could work opposite as its counterparts and used to repulse enemies back a bit. The effect wouldn't kill them, just make it look as though they had bounced.


Last edited by Darth Dallas on Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fost
Pod Team
Pod Team


Joined: 14 Oct 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the idea of capture the flag with the flags in two 'base' Aegis ships that can be moved around the map (maybe by the player with the highest frag count). Smile

I'm just going to start getting depressed again thinking of all the cool things that we could do if we had some more time. Starscape always does that to me, because I love working on it so much. Smile
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Tryagain Infinity



Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Posts: 168
Location: You see that tank behind you...



PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darth Dallas wrote:
Quote:
I wonder what a game of Starscape capture the flag would look like when the flag bites back?

Say you run over to the enemy base and the flag is a drone that wails and shoots at you as you try to get back to your flag. Just a little something to mix things up.


I would think that if its a traditional flag-is-fixed scenario where you have to go somewhere specific each time to reclaim it, it would be a sort of given it'd have some defenses. Yet another area that could be selectable in terms of what the flag's unit is (if its a unit - bot or player), armed or not, mobile or not (mobile could mean two different things here, is it node to node travel within one zone only, or can it warp to different zones?).


I was just thinking in terms of a CTF game inside a zone. You would fly over to the drone and a tractor beam would latch on to the drone from your ship. The drone would then panic and start attacking you as well as start blaring to other players that the flag is on the move.

Having the flag be the Aegis would be interesting since in addition to defending it you need it to purchase upgrades for your Aegis and your fighter. Can you imagine trying to run off with a fully upgraded Aegis with its Cannon 3 trained on you? Shocked
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