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Deceleration/Retrothruster Speed Difference
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Havoc



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 9



PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 5:28 pm    Post subject: Deceleration/Retrothruster Speed Difference Reply with quote

While testing out the engine a bit, I came to a strange result. With the Instant Action craft (perhaps custom crafts and engine loads can make this change), it was actually faster to cut the engine than to engage the backwards thrust when it came to stopping distance.

Picking a stable asteroid as a marker, I found that if I cut the engine at a certain point, I actually stopped quicker than when I switched to the backwards thrust to slow myself down. Using the latter, it actually took me longer to come to a stop. Natural deceleration was more efficient than the engine itself.

Is this a bug, a quirk that happens when the engine power/load falls under a certain value, or intended?
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 4121
Location: Sheffield, UK



PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ship used in instant action cannot be recreated within game, its a special one off, over the top job. Hence the unusual handling you found, beta testers seemed to think it was a nice powerful ship yet still easy to handle.

As you know, putting ships together in game takes a bit of thought, ships can be skittish or sluggish if not ballanced right. Instant action mode ignores all that.
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Havoc



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 9



PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm. After some tinkering in the game proper, I find the problem is still the same even with a regularly generated ship.

With the basic prowler you build at the end of the tutorial, I tried this little test:

1) Set the Aegis up about a screen away from the edge of a node.
2) Backtrack the prowler to the edge of the node, facing the Aegis but aimed so it'll pass it by.
3) Full speed ahead.
4) When level with the Aegis's corner thruster:
A) Let go of the accelerator.
OR
B) Engage reverse thrusters.

The A test has the prowler drift to a stop by itself near the middle of the Aegis; its stopping distance between full speed and full stop is therefore 0.5 Aegis Lengths (for lack of a better measurement tool).

The B test, however, has the prowler finally stop and begin going into reverse well past the other side of the Aegis; its stopping distance between full speed and full stop is approximately 1.5 Aegis Lengths.

This means that with the test ship (and the Instant Action ship as well), it's more effective to simply cut the engines when you want to make a quick stop. Engaging the reverse while you're still moving will actually make you take longer to come to a stop.

This is a more accurate way to report what I initially meant in the first post. Is this due to a quirk in the engine code itself, or an intented effect of the mechanics? This is in no way a derogatory statement on the Starscape engine, but rather a test of the mechanics physics that could perhaps help down the line if such quirks reappear in other projects.
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
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Location: Sheffield, UK



PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I see what you mean now, thought you were talking about something else, if you let go of the controls the engine goes into a braking mode on full power. When you fire the reversing jets they are at a lower power so as to be useful/controllable in navigation.

This setup provides a better player experience, this is why if the engine is too small you do end up drifting about a lot more as it isn't able to brake you as effectively.

Alternatives where:
a) zero power drift slowed under friction - the inability to stop reasonably quickly means this option isn't suitable

b) higher power reversing thrusters - possible, but the current setting seemed most usable when reversing, firing and navigating asteroids i.e. gentle steering.
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Havoc



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 9



PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah ha, I see what you mean. Letting the unassisted stop drift further would be detrimental to the playing experience and boosting the reverse thrusters too much would give too high a speed when going backwards.

Would it be possible within the engine physics to give the reverse thrusters a bigger boost when they're used to decelerate instead of accelerate? Or would the implications of making this work in all 360 degrees (with all the various thrust forces that can occur from different directions) make the fine-tuning too demanding for such a small correction?
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Zero G



Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 21
Location: St. Louis



PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I liked the demo a lot except for one thing. This automatic deceleration is intolerable. Is there any way to assign it to a button? This "feature" is most annoying when flying around mining. It gets old holding down the thruster the whole time you're moving. I can see holding it down after a double tap for the afterburner effect, but it's really annoying that you can't coast.

This makes all the difference to me whether the ship is fun to fly or a chore and consequently is also the deciding point on whether I will buy this game or not. Is there any way to turn this assist off and have it activated by a button instead? Or assign a button/key as a toggle for assist on/off?
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Zero G



Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 21
Location: St. Louis



PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2003 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I played through the demo again and maybe I can get used to it, but the flight model from Subspace is definitely a lot more fun. Subspace doesn't have a game like this built around the flight model though.

I didn't see any ini files. I did notice my preferences are stored in Starscape.cfg. Are there any lines that can be added to change the auto-decel feature?
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Japlish



Joined: 13 Apr 2003
Posts: 67
Location: France/Japan/UK



PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2003 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zero G wrote:
the flight model from Subspace is definitely a lot more fun. Subspace doesn't have a game like this built around the flight model though.



For me is perfect as is. With those type controls you say, it would be like 'Lander' (old arcade cabinet). Game in Starscape is not game to fight joystick like lander, has many more things to it.

I prefer 'arcade type' to 'simulation' type game though.
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Weeble
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Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 1143
Location: Glasgow, Scotland



PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2003 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't imagine how much harder things would be without automatic deceleration, and even switchable, I'm sure I'd have to keep it on all the time otherwise I'd go hurtling headlong into masses of enemies all the time.

As for mining, I'd suggest that you want to be using the afterburner any time you're travelling between rocks, so I'm confused as to when you would want to be coasting. If you're finding mining a chore, bear in mind that it's easiest to fire the gravity beam before you even start blasting the rocks. As well as holding the rocks still, it'll mean the resources won't get so scattered and will survive bumps better.
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Zero G



Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 21
Location: St. Louis



PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2003 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Japlish wrote:
...With those type controls you say, it would be like 'Lander' (old arcade cabinet). Game in Starscape is not game to fight joystick like lander...

The original lander, and it's many incarnations, was awesome! I also loved the 3D remake that came out a few years ago also called Lander.


Weeble wrote:
I can't imagine how much harder things would be without automatic deceleration, and even switchable, I'm sure I'd have to keep it on all the time otherwise I'd go hurtling headlong into masses of enemies all the time.

Have you ever played any of the Star Control games? It's a lot of fun and yep if you're not careful you can go careening off into/past something.


Weeble wrote:
As for mining, I'd suggest that you want to be using the afterburner any time you're travelling between rocks, so I'm confused as to when you would want to be coasting. If you're finding mining a chore, bear in mind that it's easiest to fire the gravity beam before you even start blasting the rocks. As well as holding the rocks still, it'll mean the resources won't get so scattered and will survive bumps better.


Going from one area to the other I do use afterburners. Once close to the asteroids having free flight is just for fun factor. "Dancing" with the rocks you're shooting would make mining less tedious and be good practice for combat.

In combat free flight could really shine with strafing and slingshot style attacks (where you are facing the focal point of the slingshot rather than at a tangent). The way the model is now you're pretty much always heading the way you're facing (or opposite if flying backwards). Add to that the auto-stop assist and it feels like driving a car with some amazing traction.

Don't get me wrong; from what I've seen in the demo this is a great game and I have warmed up to the flight model somewhat. It just doesn't give me the warm fuzzies like Subspace or the 3D remake of Lander (referring to the flight model, the game as a whole is very cool). That said, I do now plan to get the game, regarding which I have a couple questions.

___________________________


If I purchase the CD how is it shipped? FedEx? UPS? US Postal Service?

If I instead choose the activation code method what happens if I reinstall windows? Are there provisions made for reinstalling the game at a later date? What would I have to do to reinstall and reactivate Starscape after reinstalling windows.

Paypal? Well, I suppose it won't kill me. Rolling Eyes Razz
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Goober
Pod Team
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Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 449
Location: Moonpod Central



PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zero G wrote:
If I purchase the CD how is it shipped? FedEx? UPS? US Postal Service?


US Postal Service. Actually the Royal Mail in the good old UK, presumably it gets handed over to the Pony Express once it hits the shores of the new world. Wink

Zero G wrote:
If I instead choose the activation code method what happens if I reinstall windows? Are there provisions made for reinstalling the game at a later date? What would I have to do to reinstall and reactivate Starscape after reinstalling windows.


If you need another code just log into the website with your customer details and request a new one. If you forget your password you can get an email reminder. If you forget everything and change your email then just mail support@moonpod.com and we will sort you out.

Zero G wrote:
Paypal? Well, I suppose it won't kill me. Rolling Eyes Razz


It's not as bad as many people like to make out. We've only seen issues when they've been down for routine maintenance, and then you just can't use it at all. We are in the process of putting shareIt in place as an alternate to cater for this.
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Zero G



Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 21
Location: St. Louis



PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went ahead and bought the online activation method. Very cool game! The lack of free flight is a little less noticeable in the Devastator; it seems to slide a bit more.
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hair65



Joined: 13 Jul 2018
Posts: 888



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